EastDock ~ Released, pg. 3

The first completed Nublar mod, by Draco and hppav!

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salvosuper
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Post by salvosuper »

Having to manually install things also gives you some very basic knowledge about the game file structure and how the developers worked to create their stuff.. and this could be positive (if you're not a "hardcore" user), since makes you a little closer to being a developer yourself....And I personally appreciate everything that forces me to understand how it works, not just set to be "plug and play" as a stupid console.
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Post by Shadow Wolf »

salvosuper wrote:Having to manually install things also gives you some very basic knowledge about the game file structure and how the developers worked to create their stuff.. and this could be positive (if you're not a "hardcore" user), since makes you a little closer to being a developer yourself....And I personally appreciate everything that forces me to understand how it works, not just set to be "plug and play" as a stupid console.
good way of looking at it :)
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hppav wrote:Total Conversions: Easy to install, yet none have been made thusfar (You don't see TresHalo out there do you? Counter-Tres? CSI: Isla Sorna?)
The main reason why none have been made yet is mostly because we don't know how to make non-dinosaur AIs yet (with a few exeptions: Cow, Rhino, and chicken). I think the second reason why none have been made yet is because most people here are too much of JP fans to make anything else. (Exept maybe for the Stargate thing.)
I would like to see a TresHalo. :mrgreen:
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hppav wrote:Mods: Easy to install ala the TC Ops levels, The Lagoon, etc. ED was never to be one of these thus is why it's just a level.
I wouldn't call those mods, ATX is a mod, those are more like levels with new main menus and such. I think you mean TC_Isle, not TC Ops, because TC Ops is simply a level with an installer, not a mod at all.

@Myg
That level was very easy to install compared to some levels I have seen *cough*SG_Preview*cough*. I do not feel the need for an installer at all. I agree with salvosuper; I like better to know where things go and what they are.
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Post by hppav »

Nick3069 wrote:
hppav wrote:Total Conversions: Easy to install, yet none have been made thusfar (You don't see TresHalo out there do you? Counter-Tres? CSI: Isla Sorna?)
The main reason why none have been made yet is mostly because we don't know how to make non-dinosaur AIs yet (with a few exeptions: Cow, Rhino, and chicken). I think the second reason why none have been made yet is because most people here are too much of JP fans to make anything else. (Exept maybe for the Stargate thing.)
I would like to see a TresHalo. :mrgreen:
CSI: Isla Sorna :lol:
hppav wrote:Mods: Easy to install ala the TC Ops levels, The Lagoon, etc. ED was never to be one of these thus is why it's just a level.
I wouldn't call those mods, ATX is a mod, those are more like levels with new main menus and such. I think you mean TC_Isle, not TC Ops, because TC Ops is simply a level with an installer, not a mod at all.

@Myg
That level was very easy to install compared to some levels I have seen *cough*SG_Preview*cough*. I do not feel the need for an installer at all. I agree with salvosuper; I like better to know where things go and what they are.
There is a difference between an engine Mod and a full Mod.

Engine Mod: Alters the engine.

Full Mod: Alters the engine, menu, and levels.
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Post by Draconisaurus »

Heh, well just to add my 2 cents for a moment, MikeTheRaptor once drescribed a mod as any project which fully alters the game - new/intact/seperate story (from original game), new menu etc, of course a stand-alone engine (that needn't be modded from the original, since it's the level files which create content), and uh.. well basically a dependence in the level(s) itself on new models, or entirely new models. Thus he said that JPDS would be the first 'bonafide' mod of Trespasser (TC_Isle didn't count by his description mainly because it uses the same premise and character as Trespasser did, thus being more like an additive feature level, whereas JPDS pretends Trespasser never happened).

And so anyway.. obviously ED isn't a mod. :P I would put forth that, as far as I can see, JPO will also be a full mod. Also for example, that series-of-levels idea machf described before I left would be a full mod, hopefully as a stand-alone and including a new menu..
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Post by Slugger »

Nick3069 wrote:@Myg
That level was very easy to install compared to some levels I have seen *cough*SG_Preview*cough*. I do not feel the need for an installer at all. I agree with salvosuper; I like better to know where things go and what they are.
What was wrong with SG_Preview? I thought it was easy to install; just drop a few files off. There was a readme included (blah blah blah, Word format, blah blah blah). :)
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Post by machf »

Draconisaurus wrote:Also for example, that series-of-levels idea machf described before I left would be a full mod, hopefully as a stand-alone and including a new menu..
Yes, probably those would qualify, since they will feature (a) a new storyline, (b) new meshes, (c) new sounds, possibly (d) a new menu as you said (but that would take it into the realm of Total Conversions, rather - notice that a TC is just a sub-category within the mods one); while the Pens, even though it includes some new meshes, is just a level, meant to be played as the retail levels (it won't include any additional sounds, nor make use of ATX-only features).
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Post by TheGuy »

I thought that "mod" stood for "modification", meaning any alterations or modifications to the game are classed as "mods". :P That's for Quake though, not Tres.
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Post by machf »

Well, probably the only differences to make are between a level/map and a mod.
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Post by tatu »

Draconisaurus wrote:Heh, well just to add my 2 cents for a moment, MikeTheRaptor once drescribed a mod as any project which fully alters the game - new/intact/seperate story (from original game), new menu etc, of course a stand-alone engine (that needn't be modded from the original, since it's the level files which create content), and uh.. well basically a dependence in the level(s) itself on new models, or entirely new models. Thus he said that JPDS would be the first 'bonafide' mod of Trespasser (TC_Isle didn't count by his description mainly because it uses the same premise and character as Trespasser did, thus being more like an additive feature level, whereas JPDS pretends Trespasser never happened).
Hey where is MikeTheRaptor?
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Post by hppav »

Draconisaurus wrote:Heh, well just to add my 2 cents for a moment, MikeTheRaptor once drescribed a mod as any project which fully alters the game - new/intact/seperate story (from original game), new menu etc, of course a stand-alone engine (that needn't be modded from the original, since it's the level files which create content), and uh.. well basically a dependence in the level(s) itself on new models, or entirely new models. Thus he said that JPDS would be the first 'bonafide' mod of Trespasser (TC_Isle didn't count by his description mainly because it uses the same premise and character as Trespasser did, thus being more like an additive feature level, whereas JPDS pretends Trespasser never happened).

And so anyway.. obviously ED isn't a mod. :P I would put forth that, as far as I can see, JPO will also be a full mod. Also for example, that series-of-levels idea machf described before I left would be a full mod, hopefully as a stand-alone and including a new menu..
MikeTheRaptor =/= Definitive source for terms.

My terms are based on what is actually out there. JPDS is more of a Total Conversion than a Mod.

"Mods that add new content to the underlying game are often called partial conversions, while mods that create an entirely new game are called total conversions." as the Wiki states. Thus by the REAL definition, ED IS a Mod :P
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Post by Draconisaurus »

lol kk well, we'll just settle with using the terms Total Mod and Partial Mod. :3
tatu wrote:Hey where is MikeTheRaptor?
o_o That's a rather long tale, one which I really don't have time for now, but you all have a right to know generally - he's basically left his old life behind (including friends) and is starting a family with his girlfriend (there is a baby on the way, I think Mike will soon be 19 but don't quote me on that). Instead of joining the endeavor my friends and I set out on, he's decided to pursue a career as a pharmacist. May he find true joy in his life along whatever path it follows.
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Post by salvosuper »

mods are mostly supposed to alter one thing: gameplay.... for example, both in ut series and quake3 there are "mods" that just change gravity, or weapons effects, or healing system..or think about WOW and zombie mod for counter strike...Well, these are very small things compared to a map re-make, cause you just need to create a custom cfg most of the times.
While these are called mods, nobody calls yours a mod if you create a 200MB set of maps to be used in one of these games. They call it "mappack". For singleplayer games tho things are different, since a new map means undoubtably new gameplay experience (there are not just bots going around). Look at moddb and you'll see that many singleplayer "mods" actually dont add any new content to games theyre based on, but are still called that way.
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Post by machf »

salvosuper wrote:mods are mostly supposed to alter one thing: gameplay.... for example, both in ut series and quake3 there are "mods" that just change gravity, or weapons effects, or healing system..
Those usually are refered to as "mini-mods" - setting Trespasser to play at night or using one of those HUDs would qualify as such. Probably the snow/rain effects too. What do they all have in common? That they can be combined with whatever other stuff you can think of.
or think about WOW and zombie mod for counter strike...
Hmmm, since those seem to alter multiplayer gameplay, I don't think we could set a comparison with Trespasser...
Well, these are very small things compared to a map re-make, cause you just need to create a custom cfg most of the times.
While these are called mods, nobody calls yours a mod if you create a 200MB set of maps to be used in one of these games.
In CoD, for example, they sometimes do - try the "German Front Mod" (though it also adds some new skins, not just a bunch of multiplayer maps - probably that's the reason). Speaking of which, skinpacks are also in the mini-mods category, I believe.
They call it "mappack". For singleplayer games tho things are different, since a new map means undoubtably new gameplay experience (there are not just bots going around). Look at moddb and you'll see that many singleplayer "mods" actually dont add any new content to games theyre based on, but are still called that way.
Hmmm, for Tres, I wouldn't call "old-fashioned" levels (think of 4 Towers, JR+, etc.) mods since they're basically (mostly) just rearranging assets from the original game in a different way; I'd reserve that term for ones that incorporate any new elements, at least.

I guess ED can be called a mod or even a TC, given that it uses so many new models and sounds... the only reason it's a single level is because, well, what else could you do playing as Nedry? Have a level where he meets with Dodgson, then another where he arrives at Jurassic park, another where he sabotages the systems?
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Post by TheGuy »

machf wrote:...Probably the snow/rain effects too....
I know this is way off topic, but may I ask how you make snow? :?
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