Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

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Lord Rapteru
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Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Lord Rapteru »

Since RaptorC has a boss aka Alpha Raptor. Then why shouldn't tribes RaptorA and RaptorB also have an Alpha Raptor their tribes? In the Trespasser 96 beta when using TresED when it is opened to the lab level there is a model for RaptorCBoss when there is only a RaptorB and no RaptorC which means the developers quite likely originally intended for there to be bosses for all three Raptor Tribes or at least two of them. In addition, the RaptorCBoss has no special skin in the beta version for any of the levels it is found.

The only difference between RaptorC and RaptorCBoss is a scale factor and skin color. I calculated the scale for Tribes A & B Raptor Bosses. The scale factor between RaptorC and RaptorCBoss from the fraction: [Scale factor of RaptorCBoss/Scale factor of RaptorC]. [4.4602/2.4779] = 1.799991929 and from that I times that with the scales of RaptorA & RaptorB to get the boss scale for those tribes. The scale factor is like this:

Object =Scale
RaptorC=2.4779
RaptorCBoss=4.4602
RaptorB=3.0564
RaptorBBoss=5.5015
RaptorA= 2.4779
"RaptorABoss"=4.4602

The texture of RaptorCBoss of the retail has some similar colors to Trex_Alpha_A of the as level. RaptorCBoss retail skin could have been based off the color texture of Trex_Alpha_A hence, and the name in the guide for trespasser called RaptorCBoss as Alpha Raptor.

All that left to be done is a special skin for the RaptorABoss & RaptorBBoss based off RaptorCBoss Skin from Trespasser Retail Version. The special skin should be very similar to RaptorCBoss skin of the retail but tweaked to fit in with the skins of RaptorA and RaptorB.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by LtSten »

RaptorCBoss is just a larger version of RaptorC, iirc. It's easier to re-texture than model a new dinosaur for it, or something, it's like that anyway, I can't fully remember. :P

It's named as such as it's just a larger, differently textured version of RaptorCs, however they didn't intend for any other "bosses" based on RaptorA and/or RaptorB... Somebody else will probably explain this better than me.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Christopher »

Yeah, I think he gets all that. He's just suggesting that we could increase the size of a tribe a/b model to effectively create a tribe a/b alpha raptor (and add a new skin). It's an interesting idea, might be a neat concept to add to a fan level.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by machf »

Keep in mind that aside from the scale you'll also need to change some parameters in the dinosaur's t-script accordingly (by the same factor)...
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by RexHunter99 »

machf wrote:Keep in mind that aside from the scale you'll also need to change some parameters in the dinosaur's t-script accordingly (by the same factor)...
IIRC messing with the instance scale also messes with it's shared physics boxes, so the new dinosaur would require it's own physics boxes. I made a Baby TRex using the Demo Rex once, it even acted like it and looked it :D but for some reason the shared Physics boxes shrank so tiny... like they were a fraction of the size they *should* have been.

And yeah you might also want to modify the speed value in the TScript because IIRC the default speed is 1.000000 :/
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by machf »

I think he meant to make a new (renamed) one, since it would use a different skin, not just shrink an instanced copy...
As for the shrinking physics boxes... that's another problem altogether.
And I didn't mean the Speed value, but rather, all those values like Width, Length, the various *Reach ones, JumpUp/JumpDown... it's better to compare the Alpha Raptor's with the Tribe C Raptor's to get an idea.

Code: Select all

group $RaptorCBossBody-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 1.000000
    float Armour = 1.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-BODY"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.800000
    float Danger = 0.300000
}

group $RaptorCBossHead-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 10.000000
    float Armour = 2.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-HEAD"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.800000
    float Danger = 0.800000
}

group $RaptorCBossTail-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 0.000000
    float Armour = 0.500000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-TAIL"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.800000
    float Danger = 0.000000
}

group RaptorCBoss = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    int Archetype = 0
    int Team = 20
    bool ActBite = true
    bool ActGlare = true
    bool ActEat = true
    bool ActNothing = true
    bool ActLookAround = true
    float Width = 0.750000
    float HeadReach = 2.100000
    float TailReach = 2.900000
    float JumpDistance = 2.000000
    float JumpUp = 1.000000
    float JumpDown = 3.000000
    float WalkUnder = 1.000000
    float WalkOver = -0.450000
    float JumpOver = 0.750000
    float CrouchUnder = 1.000000
    float MoveableMass = 0.510000
    float HitPoints = 300.000000
    float ReallyDie = -30.000000
    float Regeneration = 1.000000
    float CriticalHit = 35.000000
    string Class = "CAnimal"
    int NumJoints = 23
    int PVA = -2
    bool Curved = true
    string Type = "Raptor"
    string Head = "$RaptorCBossHead-00"
    string Body = "$RaptorCBossBody-00"
    string Tail = "$RaptorCBossTail-00"
    float Diffuse = 0.900000
    float Specular = 1.250000
    float SpecularAngle = 16.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-FOOT"
    float BiteTargetDistance = 2.000000
    bool ActOuch = true
    bool ActSnarl = true
    bool ActCroon = true
    bool ActDying = true
}

Code: Select all

group $RaptorCBody-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 1.000000
    float Armour = 1.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-BODY"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.300000
}

group $RaptorCHead-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 10.000000
    float Armour = 2.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-HEAD"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.800000
}

group $RaptorCTail-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 100.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 0.000000
    float Armour = 0.500000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-TAIL"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.300000
}

group RaptorC = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    int Archetype = 0
    int Team = 20
    bool ActMoveBy = true
    bool ActBite = true
    bool ActEat = true
    bool ActDrink = true
    bool ActNothing = true
    bool ActLookAround = true
    float Width = 0.750000
    float HeadReach = 2.100000
    float TailReach = 2.900000
    float JumpDistance = 2.000000
    float JumpUp = 1.000000
    float JumpDown = 3.000000
    float WalkUnder = 1.000000
    float WalkOver = -0.450000
    float JumpOver = 0.750000
    float CrouchUnder = 1.000000
    float MoveableMass = 0.510000
    float HitPoints = 100.000000
    float ReallyDie = -30.000000
    float Regeneration = 1.000000
    float CriticalHit = 35.000000
    string Class = "CAnimal"
    int NumJoints = 23
    int PVA = -2
    bool Curved = true
    string Type = "Raptor"
    string Head = "$RaptorCHead-00"
    string Body = "$RaptorCBody-00"
    string Tail = "$RaptorCTail-00"
    float Diffuse = 0.900000
    float Specular = 1.250000
    float SpecularAngle = 16.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-FOOT"
    float BiteTargetDistance = 0.500000
    bool ActOuch = true
    bool ActSnarl = true
    bool ActDie = true
}
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by LtSten »

"BiteTargetDistance" being 4x larger, so the values would definitely need to be changed - you couldn't get away with the default values, unfortunately. :P I'm sure you'd have fun with that. Also, if the values work on a different scale to the actual size scale... RapCBoss isn't 4x larger than RapC... So you'd probably have to multiply the two BiteTargetDistances and multiply by the size scale one, shoulkd get a better value, I think? Or just experiment... Something like that.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by RexHunter99 »

LtSten wrote:"BiteTargetDistance" being 4x larger, so the values would definitely need to be changed - you couldn't get away with the default values, unfortunately. :P I'm sure you'd have fun with that. Also, if the values work on a different scale to the actual size scale... RapCBoss isn't 4x larger than RapC... So you'd probably have to multiply the two BiteTargetDistances and multiply by the size scale one, shoulkd get a better value, I think? Or just experiment... Something like that.
IIRC the ***Distance values are in measurements of the unit system (which is metres in real-world sense) so a value of 7.000000 for BiteDistance would be 7 metres... :O And the average man is less than 2 metres tall...
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by LtSten »

Well, it depends how large the raptor is. :P
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by machf »

I think I took these from the Beta... on my desktop PC I have the ones from the retail, they may be more reliable.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Draconisaurus »

I haven't seen evidence for other tribes' bosses, but it would be fun to see. I agree the RaptorC boss in Lab is very interesting - I suspect they planned something for him with the pens, and then decided against it..

Interesting note. I remember checking in retail some time ago, and the RaptorCBoss has the same "reach" etc. values as RaptorC. *facepalm* They didn't even bother to give it at least RaptorB's values there. So from that you can tell that it's possible to get away with that stuff to a degree without adjusting the values, though I do recommend adjusting by ratio as described... Except, I found that even that was just not quite right, and some tweaking is needed beyond that. Some of the values also do not need a ratio adjustment and are based on how you want the animal to move.

I haven't had trouble with physics boxes when resizing dinos. I've seen it happen though and I would not be surprised if you do a scale which is drastically different from the original. I think the baby steg from TC Final worked just fine.

Tatu and I did once come up with a theory that originally, several boss-type dinosaur encounters were planned throughout the levels, but not all of the alpharaptorish sort like RaptorCBoss...
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Lord Rapteru »

I have more values for the Raptor Bosses, and I know you cannot change the scale on $ models you have to create new ones with a different scale size.

Raptor Tribes T-Script Table*
moveablemass =Values
RaptorCBoss=0.600000
RaptorC=0.530000
RaptorBBoss=0.600000
RaptorB=0.530000
RaptorABoss=0.600000
RaptorA=0.530000
float HitPoints=Values
RaptorCBoss=300.000000
RaptorC=100.000000
RaptorBBoss=225.000000
RaptorB=75.000000
RaptorABoss=150.000000
RaptorA=50.000000
float ReallyDie =Values
RaptorCBoss=(-100.000000)
RaptorC=(-30.000000)
RaptorBBoss=(-100.000000)
RaptorB=(-30.000000)
RaptorABoss=(-100.000000)
RaptorA=(-30.000000)
float Damage**=Values
$RaptorCBossHead-00=26.000000
$RaptorCHead-00=5.000000
$RaptorBBossHead-00=78.000000
$RaptorBHead-00=15.000000
$RaptorABossHead-00=52.000000
$RaptorAHead-00=10.000000
* Note: all other values have a ratio of 1.000000
**Note: $RaptorCBossHead-00 does not have the scipt value of (int AIType), (float AIMass) and (float Danger) so that means RaptorABoss & RaptorBoss should not have those traits in their scripts.

Raptor Tribes Model Table*
Model=Scale
RaptorC Family
$RaptorCBossTail-00=2.1928
$RaptorCTail-00=1.2182
$RaptorCBossBody-00=0.66457
$RaptorCBody-00=0.61645
$RaptorCBossHead-00=1.3714
$RaptorCHead-00=0.68757
$RaptorCBossSh=4.4609
$RaptorCSh=2.4783
$J$RaptorCBossSh=0.01959
$J$RaptorCSh=0.010989
$J$RaptorCBoss=0.01959
$J$RaptorC=0.010989
RaptorB Family
$RaptorBBossTail-00=2.704729
$RaptorBTail-00=1.5026
$RaptorBBossBody-00=0.830602
$RaptorBBody-00=0.77046
$RaptorBBossHead-00=1.572551
$RaptorBHead-00=0.78842
$RaptorBBossSh=5.59579
$RaptorBSh=3.1088
$J$RaptorBBossSh=0.023901
$J$RaptorBSh=0.013407
$J$RaptorBBoss=0.023901
$J$RaptorB=0.013407
RaptorA Family
$RaptorABossTail-00=2.1928
$RaptorATail-00=1.2182
$RaptorABossBody-00=0.671815
$RaptorABody-00=0.62317
$RaptorABossHead-00=1.296325
$RaptorAHead-00=0.64993
$RaptorABossSh=4.4609
$RaptorASh=2.4783
$J$RaptorABossSh=0.01959
$J$RaptorASh=0.010989
$J$RaptorABoss=0.01959
$J$RaptorA=0.010989
*Note for $J$Raptor(A-C)Sh and for $Jraptor(A-C) the scale is same for all instances
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by machf »

Lord Rapteru wrote: **Note: $RaptorCBossHead-00 does not have the scipt value of (int AIType), (float AIMass) and (float Danger) so that means RaptorABoss & RaptorBoss have should not have those traits in their scripts.
Actualy, that's most likely a mistake... if you do that, the other dinos won't "see" the Alpha.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Draconisaurus »

Yeah, that is an error, which I've had to deal with.. And I'm sorry to say but your approach to this seems a bit too systematic to me (which is part of the logical error in thinking the bosses need to be missing values). Most of the determinations you are making can be very simplified, and no need to post so much info. Better spend the time doing it yourself, if you want to see it done.
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Re: Raptor Boss for tribes RaptorA and RaptorB

Post by Lord Rapteru »

The model doesn't have those values maybe because Alpha Raptor has transport to destination ai, but I agree it could be a mistake because it is hard to make the alpha raptor to appear when playing the game.

Here's code for the RaptorC and RaptorCBoss for proof:

Code: Select all

group $RaptorCBody-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 1.000000
    float Armour = 1.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-BODY"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.300000
}

group $RaptorCHead-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 5.000000
    float Armour = 2.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-HEAD"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.800000
}

group $RaptorCTail-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 0.000000
    float Armour = 0.500000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-TAIL"
    int AIType = 2
    float AIMass = 0.600000
    float Danger = 0.300000
}

group $RaptorCBossBody-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 1.000000
    float Armour = 1.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-BODY"
}

group $RaptorCBossHead-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 26.000000
    float Armour = 2.000000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-HEAD"
}

group $RaptorCBossTail-00 = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 1
    float Mass = 90.000000
    bool Tangible = true
    bool Moveable = true
    bool Visible = false
    float Damage = 0.000000
    float Armour = 0.500000
    string SoundMaterial = "RAPTOR-TAIL"
}
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