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 Post subject: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:27 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Oye there, new mod from me. Almost all the work was done many weeks ago, finally put in the finishing touches. Could not figure out how to use TPAReader and just used the ol' TPAAdd, worked great. Note that the music takes a moment to load after the level starts. Basically, a fun short platformer level inspired by a level from PITFALL: The Mayan Adventure. Have fun!

https://app.box.com/s/geaixasi6d7ld2b2nehf4i76r67kj9qq


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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:39 pm 
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That looks pretty cool, Drac. I'll download it now, but won't check it out until the weekend. I'll
have some time (hopefully) then.


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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:42 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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I hope this one doesn't crash...

EDIT: OK, so I mnaged to finish it. However, it crashed on a couple places near the end, so I had to use the tnext cheat to progress further.
The first one is
Spoiler: show
when reaching the top of the first palm in the sequence before the waterfall close to the end
, and the second one is
Spoiler: show
after getting out of the pond over the same waterfall, when turning around to look.


My conclusion: it's the opacity maps. The big problem here is that there are several opacity maps at different angles which intersect each other, and the engine gets stretched past it limits trying to calculate what's visible and what not. It's possible the same thing was happening with the grass in your other level...

Also, IMO
Spoiler: show
this level needs some guns and some dinosaurs.


Oh, and
Spoiler: show
after a while, I turned off the musicc because it was driving me nuts.


Also, did you ever play the original Pitfall! or Pitfall II: Lost Caverns on the Atari 2600VCS or on Atari 8-bit computers?

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:21 am 
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T-Rex
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Location: Canada, eh?
I just finished it and had the exact same crashes as machf both times. I'm thinking he's right about the opacity maps - I will look into my meshes and see if I can optimize them at all. Also those palms are fairly high-poly for Trespasser, so you might want to try using them a bit more sparingly. I do eventually want to make LOD meshes for them as well as 2-D planar versions for the distance as well.

Really liked the level though, thought it was pretty fun trying to make all those fairly difficult jumps. Novice Trespassers might have some trouble with it since a couple of those jumps are only just doable (made a bit easier by the wonky $ boxes, luckily!). There were a couple of parts where I wasn't sure where to go, particularily in that part where you have to jump across the tops of palms since I never really intended anyone to actually get up there (the tops have $ objects so you can make them edible by herbivores).

I'm glad to see my foliage being used as well - you'll be glad to hear I've just finished work on some fresh palms as well for another MegaJungle update. :wink: And personally I liked the music, although I was kind of hoping it would have been:

Strangely, the music wouldn't play at all until I quicksaved. That seems to be a common issue when using TPAReader or TPAAdd, I've never had it happen with EffectsEditor.

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:24 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Thanks folks -

This crashing business is startin' to get a little lame, I'll be sure and keep it in mind for future mods, maybe have some beta-testing done. The LOD meshes sound promising.

Glad my teleport triggers came in handy... For guns and dinos, yeah but this one was meant purely as a puzzle level, and the critters of the namesake Pitfall level weren't available.


Rebel, be sure and put quality way down for this one, heh.

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:29 pm 
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Quote:
Rebel, be sure and put quality way down for this one, heh.


That's how I managed to play the Canopy level somewhat before we found out that it was
the grasses causing the crashes.


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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:48 pm 
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The jumps were fun, although I missed more of them that I thought I would have. Still some crashes
though, Drac. You got to work on that, bub. ;) Otherwise, it was worth the download.


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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:33 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Thanks! I think I'll keep this as it is now, honestly, and just remember this opacity issue for future mods. Thinking of working on one tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Draconisaurus wrote:
Thanks! I think I'll keep this as it is now, honestly, and just remember this opacity issue for future mods. Thinking of working on one tonight.


It was probably a good thing that this opacity limit came to light, Drac. As far as I know, none of us knew that it was an issue before. As far as your levels, keep 'em coming. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:57 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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The problem is that you have planes with opacity/transparency which partially block other planes and vice-versa. It's no problem when one is in front of another one, but when they cross each other, the engine has a hard time deciding what's visible and what not...
That's something well documented in 3D rendering, right now I don't remember what it's called...

OK, here it is, the Painter's Algorithm and how it will fail under certain conditions like overlapping polygons:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painter%27s_algorithm

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:59 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Z-fighting?
'Nyways TI, I wonder if what machf just said could be of use in updating the models. Altering the faces within a single mesh to not intersect. Could help a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:07 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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The problem isn't a single object, it's the way the levels are laid out, with multiple oberlapping grass clusters and palm leaves from different trees...
BTW, did you generate proper partittons with GUIapp?

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:06 am 
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Location: Canada, eh?
That is good information to have, machf. I've always been careful with overlapping plants anyway, but I didn't actually know about this. Will check and see if this makes any difference performance/stability-wise with my own levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Xibalba Falls
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:25 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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So wait, those models do have intersecting opacity faces within each mesh. We're still saying that causes an engine slow-down/crash, right?

Didn't use GUIApp this time, slipped my mind.

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