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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:57 am 
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TrespasserGuy wrote:
Nice work TI! I'm going to continue some work on this.

Sounds good. If Drac is busy when you're done, I might pick it up again right afterward.

TresGuy, what are your thoughts on my suggestions for the overall series of goals for the level and the placement of dinosaurs and guns as I outlined a couple posts back?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Sounds good! I agree with your thoughts that we should replace the vanilla Tribe B raptors with something a little more complex. Heck, maybe even a new raptor skin would be pretty cool. Also, HEADS UP TO ANYONE HELPING WITH THE MODDING OF THIS LEVEL. I'm going to be moving the mountain to the dead center of the level. Also, I will be opening up a pathway near the swamp area in the back of the Geo plant. The mountain has also been doubled in size, with the previous mountain being kept but having its roads and plateau erased. Think of that mountain as Mt. Crick, and the new, re-sized mountain as Mt. Watson :P
I'll also probably be expanding upon that T-rex paddock idea that you started.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Wow. This'll be interesting!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:40 pm 
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There we go, done!

EDIT: Never mind, don't use this version. It complicated much of the level design as a whole.


Hope you all like the changes.


Last edited by TrespasserGuy on Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Alright, so I checked out the new additions, a big problem immediately came to mind. The level now seems to be too large to be finishable in the time we have left. The new path behind the new mountain is a good addition for exploration, but there is so much space which now needs to be filled back there that I fear we won't be able to fill it in time, as I mentioned a few posts back. It's also very narrow, which means it will be hard to fit in much interesting stuff back there while still making it work.

A few other notes - personally I liked the path we had going through the mountains before. The one by the cave was a bit cheap, and I see where you're coming from with that change, but it was little things like this that gave the level a more open-ended feeling, rather than just having the player follow a couple of set paths. I think that path could have stayed, provided we put a significant enough challenge in there to make it worth exploring if you miss the cave. Nobody had ever gotten around to really putting anything interesting in there after all.

The other path by the canal between the hills was also something I was fond of as it gave the player more options when exploring that area, and was a major crossroads in the center of the level - do you go down to the lake, up the hill, toward the Geo Plant, or through the mountain pass? That's also where I'd planned on building the entrance to the paddocks.

Also, we'll need to change the TrnObjs on the old mountain so it isn't obvious that the paths which were once there have been removed. :)

All in all, I honestly feel that the latest changes have taken the level back a step design-wise, and, worryingly, increased the workload to be unreasonable for the time we have left. :? No offense, TresGuy, I just want to make sure you hear me out on this.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Spoiler: show
TheIdiot wrote:
Alright, so I checked out the new additions, a big problem immediately came to mind. The level now seems to be too large to be finishable in the time we have left. The new path behind the new mountain is a good addition for exploration, but there is so much space which now needs to be filled back there that I fear we won't be able to fill it in time, as I mentioned a few posts back. It's also very narrow, which means it will be hard to fit in much interesting stuff back there while still making it work.

A few other notes - personally I liked the path we had going through the mountains before. The one by the cave was a bit cheap, and I see where you're coming from with that change, but it was little things like this that gave the level a more open-ended feeling, rather than just having the player follow a couple of set paths. I think that path could have stayed, provided we put a significant enough challenge in there to make it worth exploring if you miss the cave. Nobody had ever gotten around to really putting anything interesting in there after all.

The other path by the canal between the hills was also something I was fond of as it gave the player more options when exploring that area, and was a major crossroads in the center of the level - do you go down to the lake, up the hill, toward the Geo Plant, or through the mountain pass? That's also where I'd planned on building the entrance to the paddocks.

Also, we'll need to change the TrnObjs on the old mountain so it isn't obvious that the paths which were once there have been removed. :)

All in all, I honestly feel that the latest changes have taken the level back a step design-wise, and, worryingly, increased the workload to be unreasonable for the time we have left. :? No offense, TresGuy, I just want to make sure you hear me out on this.


Yeah, I see where you're going with all this. :? If you want, we can just redact this version and start over from your 0.2.4 one


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Yeah, I see where you're going with all this. :? If you want, we can just redact this version and start over from your 0.2.4 one

Let's wait and see what Drac thinks first.

If we rollback, I'd definitely still like to keep the path around the back of the Geo plant, but maybe make it so that it meets up around where I'd imagined the beach to be instead so we don't have to cover as much area with it. :)

Let me roughly illustrate what I had in mind for the rest of the level area:
Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

Red = trails
Brown = roads
Yellow = fences
Green = cliffs
Blue = locations
The pink and red-brown simply represents unplayable area outside of the level. I was thinking we could include one more interesting location up in the north on a cliff overlooking the dock, but I don't know what would work. It's all just very rough of course, there's plenty of area to fill in with ideas, especially along the shore.
What does everyone think of that?

Perhaps once the level is finished for the anniversary, we can bring back the big mountain as well and fill in the rest of the map. The terrain area we are currently using is only about half of the entire .WTD, after all. We could easily make it much bigger with more time. :)

EDIT: Also, congrats TresGuy on becoming a brachiosaurus. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Whoa, that map concept looks pretty amazing :) I like this idea, especially the one with the dock, which will allow us to make
Spoiler: show
that boat related ending.


And, you're right. When the anniversary passes we can just go back to the large mountain idea, but for now, this other plan sounds better and feasible.

EDIT: Oh also, thanks :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:15 am 
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TrespasserGuy wrote:
Whoa, that map concept looks pretty amazing :) I like this idea, especially the one with the dock, which will allow us to make
Spoiler: show
that boat related ending.

EDIT: Oh also, thanks :mrgreen:

That's exactly what I was thinking as well, everything is in place to set up all of the objectives I suggested in that case, and there is still plenty of space for whatever creative ideas come to mind as we go.

Quote:
And, you're right. When the anniversary passes we can just go back to the large mountain idea, but for now, this other plan sounds better and feasible.

Yeah, precisely. The big space in the top-left will be empty in the current level, so we can still add in the big mountain there instead when we have time. Not sure what would go up there if we use the helicopter ending as well though. I think it would look cool there as well, visible over the hills in the distance throughout the rest of the level.

Hmm, what about having the boat be the only escape from the level? We would have to find a different use for the mountaintop station instead, but it would ensure that players have to explore the entire level to finish it. That way we only have to script one ending as well.
The sequence of events would then be such (The facility on top of the mountain would be a breaker-building of some sort, and the "?" building on my map would be a security building).
Spoiler: show
1. Find Geo Plant passcode, or sneak in through the back.
2. Restore power at the Geo Plant (while the T-rex harasses you).
3. With power restored, open canal floodgate to lower water level in canal. Get key to Mansion from canal.
4. Enable master security override from Mansion to get into mountaintop breaker building.
5. Activate Mansion gate breaker so that it can be opened.
6. Find the boat at the docks. Boat needs fuel. (could include a note nearby saying something like "John Doe was on his way with fuel for the boat from that bunker in the paddocks a few hours ago."
7. Unlock paddock gates from security building.
8. Get fuel from paddock bunker.
9. Refuel boat (maybe you have to hold off a pack of carnivores or something while it fuels up?)
10. Escape!

All of these things would need to be clearly communicated, of course, so that the player doesn't just wander around randomly trying to figure out what to do.

Thoughts on this sequence?
I personally don't really like the building atop the mountain being a breakder building, but I can't think of anything else to put up there, and we definitely want to ensure the player heads up there for something. My goal with these summaries is to ensure that the player must visit every major location in order to finish the level, while also trying to avoid backtracking as much as possible. Any ideas?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 am 
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Weeelll then. TI I like the map you drew. 8) In reading all this I'm against enlarging the mountain... And I mean, if someone wants to make a specifically mountain-enlarged mod of this mod, that's their business, though it seems a little odd to me. :yum:

For puzzles... This level is so open-ended, as TI explained.. I think it'd be awesome if we include two OR THREE different ways to escape. Helicopter, Boat, Radio, or something. Have the puzzles be very non-linear too, however that would work.

As a note - the alpha SUM level has a fuel cart model, we should include that. Maybe to fuel a helicopter for escape.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:37 am 
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Weeelll then. TI I like the map you drew. 8)

If we all agree to it, I can make a much better one and get it in-game using Lee's map script. Haven't had an in-level map since...JPDS?

Quote:
In reading all this I'm against enlarging the mountain... And I mean, if someone wants to make a specifically mountain-enlarged mod of this mod, that's their business, though it seems a little odd to me. :yum:

Just to clarify - the issue wasn't with enlarging the already existant mountain, it was with adding a second much larger mountain to the center of the level and converting the current one into a non-detailed area. TresGuy and I were then discussing adding the second mountain elsewhere in the level, after the level itself has been finished.

Quote:
For puzzles... This level is so open-ended, as TI explained.. I think it'd be awesome if we include two OR THREE different ways to escape. Helicopter, Boat, Radio, or something. Have the puzzles be very non-linear too, however that would work.

So you're more in favour of doing multiple endings? I mean, this wouldn't be hard, my only concern is that there would be too much backtracking if we decided to have multiple endings. The earlier objective summaries I posted (the seperate boat-helicopter ones) had the player exploring the whole map and solving different puzzles for each, but then you would miss out on a lot of the level if you were focusing on one or the other. The previous summary I posted is an attempt to make the player explore the whole level to escape, but I had to compromise by removing the helicopter.

Quote:
As a note - the alpha SUM level has a fuel cart model, we should include that. Maybe to fuel a helicopter for escape.

Will have to check that out, we could use it for fueling the boat.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:47 am 
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Huh. So, I think I'll defer to you here, suggesting whatever works best for getting the player around the map locations in a gameplay-cohesive way.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 am 
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Draconisaurus wrote:
Huh. So, I think I'll defer to you here, suggesting whatever works best for getting the player around the map locations in a gameplay-cohesive way.

Okay. Though I'm still open to ideas on this one.

Anyone else want a go at the level? If so, I might have a crack at roughing out the rest of the map as I drew it next, and then I'll upload it for filling in now that we have a cohesive plan for the rest of the map. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:11 am 
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You know what? I'll take another go at the level, but stay away from the mountain idea, and focus on getting those paddocks set up, because those ideas sound nice :yes:

EDIT: Ok, THIS is the version from which all new versions will be built off of: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/0sfkrul ... iho/shared

This version builds off from TI's ideas seen in the map he made a few posts ago


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:56 am 
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Now this I really like, TresGuy. :) The fences look very imposing, good choice using the ED fences as I would have used the retail ones which aren't nearly as cool. Though I dread placing down the rest of those after the nightmare that is the fencing in RTJP... :sick:

I'll take a swing at it now! Gonna rough out the rest of the terrain and import the ocean as a placeholder...I'll have to edit my mountain object as well so that it ends before it gest to the sea.

EDIT: Aaaand viola! Completely finished roughing out the rest of the level area as per the plan! Now all we have to do is fill it in. :D
It might be wise to avoid adding whole new areas at this point and just finish off what's now established in the terrain so we can get this thing finished in time.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8ifg837x1 ... I.zip/file

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