Physics Issues With Anne
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- tatu
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Physics Issues With Anne
EDIT: For solution, see below.
I have noticed an issue that appears to effect fan levels overall.
For whatever reason, when importing Anne into a fan level, her hand physics appear to be messed up, which results in stuff like keypads to be really annoying to use. Let me give you some images.
This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from retail IT:
This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from Isla Sorna:
This is Anne's hand physic taken from Isla Sorna (and I have looked in a few fan levels to confirm they have this issue as well):
It appears that somehow the physics get attached to Anne's joint bone on her hand, instead of the actual place. This issue could also be why we can't experiment with different foot boxes, or change her physics. I wonder if this could also effect the AI, as it is possible something like their feet boxes ends up getting the wrong position?
I think this is an important issue to be aware of, specially as it will effect puzzles like keypads, or where Anne's hand much touch things.
I am unsure how many of you have noticed this (like Rebel or machf or Draco), do we have a fix for it? I think it is something to be aware of as a modder!
SOLUTION
EDIT: I have already found a working solution to this issue. It appears to be an issue with the TPM format, or with how TresEd exports Anne (as GeomAdd imports the GRF fine). I used an earlier GeomAdd version (2003-08-29) and extracted Anne as a GRF file, and imported it into Isla Sorna. This fixed the issue with misplaced physics for her. The GRF export is disabled in the latest GeomAdd (2003-09-15) but can be re-enabled. I will take a look to see if I noticed any differences with the AI physics as well.
This do not appear to effect the AI (by a short observation with the bones cheat).
GeomAdd 2003-08-29 can be found here: www.trescom.org/hosted/andres_james/Tre ... -08-29.zip
EDIT2: This will also fix the issue with Anne's arm feeling longer in fan levels:
TPM imported Anne: GRF imported Anne:
I have noticed an issue that appears to effect fan levels overall.
For whatever reason, when importing Anne into a fan level, her hand physics appear to be messed up, which results in stuff like keypads to be really annoying to use. Let me give you some images.
This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from retail IT:
This is Anne's finger physic box position taken from Isla Sorna:
This is Anne's hand physic taken from Isla Sorna (and I have looked in a few fan levels to confirm they have this issue as well):
It appears that somehow the physics get attached to Anne's joint bone on her hand, instead of the actual place. This issue could also be why we can't experiment with different foot boxes, or change her physics. I wonder if this could also effect the AI, as it is possible something like their feet boxes ends up getting the wrong position?
I think this is an important issue to be aware of, specially as it will effect puzzles like keypads, or where Anne's hand much touch things.
I am unsure how many of you have noticed this (like Rebel or machf or Draco), do we have a fix for it? I think it is something to be aware of as a modder!
SOLUTION
EDIT: I have already found a working solution to this issue. It appears to be an issue with the TPM format, or with how TresEd exports Anne (as GeomAdd imports the GRF fine). I used an earlier GeomAdd version (2003-08-29) and extracted Anne as a GRF file, and imported it into Isla Sorna. This fixed the issue with misplaced physics for her. The GRF export is disabled in the latest GeomAdd (2003-09-15) but can be re-enabled. I will take a look to see if I noticed any differences with the AI physics as well.
This do not appear to effect the AI (by a short observation with the bones cheat).
GeomAdd 2003-08-29 can be found here: www.trescom.org/hosted/andres_james/Tre ... -08-29.zip
EDIT2: This will also fix the issue with Anne's arm feeling longer in fan levels:
TPM imported Anne: GRF imported Anne:
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Re: Physics Issues With Anne
The main hand box isn't that bad, but I can see how the pointing finger not aligning would cause issues. How do you re-enable GRF export in the latest version of GeomAdd?
- Draconisaurus
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
Wow what an issue. I wonder if you are the first to ever notice it. Strange fix of an old GeomAdd..
Interestingly enough, I noticed a different error many years ago which now seems to be the same thing. You point out how Anne's arm is different from import compared to retail. Well, years ago I realized that Anne holds guns further away from herself in imported versions. I had always thought this was a bug caused by retail level files having a built-in fix for the relative magnet positions, as the solution was to change the hold-magnets' positions so that Anne holds guns closer. But looking at this error, it would seem to be the cause of the gun-hold error, rather. Fascinating. I wonder why an old GeomAdd solves the issue. Also I echo Nick's question.
Interestingly enough, I noticed a different error many years ago which now seems to be the same thing. You point out how Anne's arm is different from import compared to retail. Well, years ago I realized that Anne holds guns further away from herself in imported versions. I had always thought this was a bug caused by retail level files having a built-in fix for the relative magnet positions, as the solution was to change the hold-magnets' positions so that Anne holds guns closer. But looking at this error, it would seem to be the cause of the gun-hold error, rather. Fascinating. I wonder why an old GeomAdd solves the issue. Also I echo Nick's question.
- tatu
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
I used Resource Hacker to re-enable it. I actually re-enabled it months ago when I used it to re-arrange the TresEd menus to fit my needs, at it was randomness that I found this with GeomAdd.
I'll just attach the modified GeomAdd EXE here (Only contains the EXE):
The way you use it is that you select a level, and then it ask for the model name, which is "Anne". It will save "Anne.grf" inside the GeomAdd folder. It will also extract all the physics and bones with her. It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
I'll just attach the modified GeomAdd EXE here (Only contains the EXE):
The way you use it is that you select a level, and then it ask for the model name, which is "Anne". It will save "Anne.grf" inside the GeomAdd folder. It will also extract all the physics and bones with her. It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
- Draconisaurus
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
Hmm, I have it in my memory that GeomAdd might not import correctly if you Replace Meshes without the textures present. I want to say that it results in a textureless model, but not sure. As for not needing replace instances, isn't that needed for the correct physics positions? I guess maybe not..Tatu wrote:It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
- tatu
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
No, if the textures are already present in the SWP/PID, it should be fine. I have never had an issue at least. But then people could just extract the textures anyway.Draconisaurus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:54 pmHmm, I have it in my memory that GeomAdd might not import correctly if you Replace Meshes without the textures present. I want to say that it results in a textureless model, but not sure. As for not needing replace instances, isn't that needed for the correct physics positions? I guess maybe not..Tatu wrote:It will not extract textures however, so either get that with TresEd and place in the same folder, or if you have Anne already in your level, just use replace mesh and instances. I haven't tried just replacing mesh but that should work as well, as she will be placed at 0,0,0 otherwise.
No, the physics are in the correct place in the level. It is in-game that is the issue. You can move the physics anywhere on the map, but they are assigned to a bone on Anne anyway.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
- Deadeyeguy_45
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
So this is what was happening! I mentioned some months back on Discord on how Anne will stretch her arm vs unfold her elbow when pressing right click. I always assumed it had something to do with the CE version of the game vs retail. I subconsciously noticed her annoying finger but thought nothing of it, really nice catch Tatu!
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- tatu
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
The arm issue is something Draco pointed out years ago to me. I guess my experience with Isla Sorna allowed me to have some understanding of the issue. Glad we are still learning stuffDeadeyeguy_45 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:39 pm So this is what was happening! I mentioned some months back on Discord on how Anne will stretch her arm vs unfold her elbow when pressing right click. I always assumed it had something to do with the CE version of the game vs retail. I subconsciously noticed her annoying finger but thought nothing of it, really nice catch Tatu!
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Re: Physics Issues With Anne
Interesting. Will have to port this into my levels as well then.
I wonder if moving around her physics boxes has any effect on making this better or worse, then? Or her bones? I've messed with the bones of CAnimals a fair bit and depending on where they are relative to the mesh, they can cause the body to deform in strange ways. I believe the physics boxes are attached to a specific bone in each CAnimal's body so it's possible the same happens with Anne as well.
I wonder if moving around her physics boxes has any effect on making this better or worse, then? Or her bones? I've messed with the bones of CAnimals a fair bit and depending on where they are relative to the mesh, they can cause the body to deform in strange ways. I believe the physics boxes are attached to a specific bone in each CAnimal's body so it's possible the same happens with Anne as well.
- Rebel
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
Nice detective work, tatu. I always thought Anne's arm seemed a bit out of sorts in our fan based levels, but I simply ignored the differences.
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- tatu
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Re: Physics Issues With Anne
From what I remember doing a year or so ago, moving the physics boxes will not do anything. They are assigned to specific bones. I know I have moved the foot box way away from Anne but it is still at her feet when going in-game.I wonder if moving around her physics boxes has any effect on making this better or worse, then? Or her bones? I've messed with the bones of CAnimals a fair bit and depending on where they are relative to the mesh, they can cause the body to deform in strange ways. I believe the physics boxes are attached to a specific bone in each CAnimal's body so it's possible the same happens with Anne as well.
Another thing I noticed after making this topic is how Anne's body physics is also a bit more forward as well, though I am unsure how much that would effect her. The foot box appears to be the same:
TPM: GRF:
Thank you! I don't think it does effect Anne overall, except the appearance and when you do puzzles like keypads.Nice detective work, tatu. I always thought Anne's arm seemed a bit out of sorts in our fan based levels, but I simply ignored the differences.
Active project: Trespasser: Isla Sorna
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."
Status:
BE-PH1: Released
PH2-IT: Pre-released
PL-SUM: In production
"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."