Draco - Sunday, 1 April 2007

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Draco - Sunday, 1 April 2007

Post by Draconisaurus »

Name: Draco Astreus
Position: Team Leader, 3D modeller, event scripter, sound design, level design, texture design
Occupation: College student (freshman)
Age: 19
Listening to: Tiesto - Elements of Life
Estimated JPDS release date: Summer '07


Don't have a lot of time for this journal, but I think it's about time I posted one. :) First order of business is the new forums. As you can see, we now have 2 JPDS forums at TresCom, one for us to discuss things in and one for you guys to see and post at. I think overall this works much better than the previous JPDS forums... if we had more of a following outside of TresCom, this might not be the case, but for now, pretty much all people who follow JPDS are TresComers, and this will also give all members (especially newer ones) a more readily available introduction to exactly what JPDS is. :) Mike is currently on vacation for spring break in North Carolina.. well actually he's on the bus at this time :P for about 1 hr 15 mins so far.. anyways. When he gets back I'll see if I can talk him into making an "intro to JPDS" thread, he's good at that sort of thing. ;) Also as I've mentioned, we'll no longer be using the old "JP: Dark Secrets" thread, but of course we'll keep it around for people to see. Some of the pics are gone, but many/most of them are still there. If anyone wishes to discuss something from back in earlier pages of that thread, feel free to start a new topic about it.

And now for the juicy stuff. ;) Some nice work has been done lately... most notably yesterday morning, when Mickey was alone at home all day, allowing him to work most of the time on JPDS1, and so I pulled another all-nighter to supply him with new terrain objects and tree models. ^^ Here are some sneak peeks at the results:

Image Image Image

In these next images, you can see the two new trees I've made: the sequoya (w/new bark texture), which is incredibly massive (though I plan to improve it later, perhaps a thicker trunk..) compared to any tree seen in Trespasser before, and the "wollemi" pine, a fascinating prehistoric resident of modern Australia I discovered while googling:
http://www.wollemipine.com/news/herald-tribune.php
The prehistoric tree obviously isn't native to Isla Sorna, you'll have to play the game to find out how it got there. ;) Here are the images:

Image Image Image Image
Image Image Image

The pines in JPDS1 currently overflow the palette limit, at some point I'm going to go in and do some major palette-cleaning, making new palettes and using existing ones for some textures etc.. that will take a bit of work, plus I'm still making new textures occassionally, so I plan to wait until I'm deep into developing the EA (which will use LOTS of new textures). Also in the second to last shot.. you can see that mipmapped versions of the wollemi tree do not have any leaves. :? My only guess is because the mesh of the leaves is more or less flat with respect to the ground, so they don't get counted as having enough vertical mesh to be included in the mipmap. I've actually deleted all the "detai" meshes from retail trees in JPDS1 (for various reasons, including that their colors were no longer accurate)... however I believe in this case, it could be to my advatage to create detail meshes/textures for wollemis. That will be interesting to do, and hopefully solve that problem..

To be honest, all the other JPDS updates I can think of are confidential! ;) I've recently compiled a comprehensive To-Do list for JPDS1, which currently has 103 items listed. I don't think this list will go above 110, and some of the things have already been worked at quite a bit.. but it gives us a much clearer idea of where we are headed and what's necessary to get there. It also allows me to guide team members (especially myself) in what should be done next. There are about 2 months left of school, I'll try and do as much work in that time as possible, though when summer rolls around - look out. ;)

- Drac.
Last edited by Draconisaurus on Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draconisaurus - Sunday, 1 April 2007

Post by machf »

Draconisaurus wrote: The pines in JPDS1 currently overflow the palette limit, at some point I'm going to go in and do some major palette-cleaning, making new palettes and using existing ones for some textures etc..
See? that's why I wanted to define sets of standardized palettes for use with Trespasser... some for dinosaurs, others for plants, other for buildings, others for furniture, others for machines... If we don't agree on some standards, it will get even worse as soon as different people start releasing different models and then someone wants to combien them into the same level...
Also in the second to last shot.. you can see that mipmapped versions of the wollemi tree do not have any leaves. :? My only guess is because the mesh of the leaves is more or less flat with respect to the ground, so they don't get counted as having enough vertical mesh to be included in the mipmap.
Hmmm... the algorithm GeomAdd uses to generate mipmaps isn't too good, apparently. It probably just drops lines/columns from the original picture (taking each second pixel, each fourth, each eighth, etc.). You can always generate your own mipmaps and replace them with SWPadd...
I've actually deleted all the "detai" meshes from retail trees in JPDS1 (for various reasons, including that their colors were no longer accurate)... however I believe in this case, it could be to my advatage to create detail meshes/textures for wollemis. That will be interesting to do, and hopefully solve that problem..
Try the custom mipmaps as I suggested...


Aside from that, it's good to see new trees in a Trespasser level. And that bridge looks a little like one I was making for my Pens level, fortunately I have an alternate design which I'm considering using instead...
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Re: Draconisaurus - Sunday, 1 April 2007

Post by Draconisaurus »

machf wrote:
Draconisaurus wrote: The pines in JPDS1 currently overflow the palette limit, at some point I'm going to go in and do some major palette-cleaning, making new palettes and using existing ones for some textures etc..
See? that's why I wanted to define sets of standardized palettes for use with Trespasser... some for dinosaurs, others for plants, other for buildings, others for furniture, others for machines... If we don't agree on some standards, it will get even worse as soon as different people start releasing different models and then someone wants to combien them into the same level...
Yeah it's quite a big hassle.. Thing is, I happen to know that many Trespasser palettes are very useful. I use them a lot.. for example, you know the tres mini-tower computers? Well, I pasted my new blue-version textures into the original ones.. and the palette completely supports the blue colors, even while the computers are all cream colored or w/e. However, the same process didn't work for certain other tres computer textures.. What I REALLY want is an application that will graphically show me what colors are in the 256 palette being used.. that would help immensly.
machf wrote:Hmmm... the algorithm GeomAdd uses to generate mipmaps isn't too good, apparently. It probably just drops lines/columns from the original picture (taking each second pixel, each fourth, each eighth, etc.). You can always generate your own mipmaps and replace them with SWPadd...
Eh... I don't think that's going to work. Geomadd/SWP mipmaps are for indevidual textures. Model mipmaps are generated on-the-fly by the engine. It works fine when the angle of difference from the leaves is great enough:
Image
(image from JPDS~testing; wollemi tree is in the center)
machf wrote:Aside from that, it's good to see new trees in a Trespasser level. And that bridge looks a little like one I was making for my Pens level, fortunately I have an alternate design which I'm considering using instead...
Ahh really? That's fun.. Nem uses a similar set-up as well. Actually those bridges are temporary.. it's just a bunch of the common InGen bridges in a big line. I've brought all the bridges into Max and will eventually be modifying them to fit the terrain, or combine them when necessary.. which also means I'll be taking some of the posts out, I don't think it needs quite that many. :P
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Re: Draconisaurus - Sunday, 1 April 2007

Post by machf »

Draconisaurus wrote: Yeah it's quite a big hassle.. Thing is, I happen to know that many Trespasser palettes are very useful. I use them a lot.. for example, you know the tres mini-tower computers? Well, I pasted my new blue-version textures into the original ones.. and the palette completely supports the blue colors, even while the computers are all cream colored or w/e. However, the same process didn't work for certain other tres computer textures.. What I REALLY want is an application that will graphically show me what colors are in the 256 palette being used.. that would help immensly.
Like this?
Image

Or this?
Image

The first one is from Paint Shop Pro, the second one is from Wally.
Eh... I don't think that's going to work. Geomadd/SWP mipmaps are for indevidual textures. Model mipmaps are generated on-the-fly by the engine.
You mean different LOD models, then? Because 'mipmaps' refer ONLY to textures. Does Trespasser actually use different LOD models calcualted on-the-fly? I was under the impression it used constant LOD, switching to 2-D sprites after a certain distance, and just changing mipmaps for the textures in-between. Different LOD models tend NOT to be generated "on the fly"... I doubt Trespasser was THAT advanced.
It works fine when the angle of difference from the leaves is great enough:
Image
(image from JPDS~testing; wollemi tree is in the center)
Ahh really? That's fun.. Nem uses a similar set-up as well. Actually those bridges are temporary.. it's just a bunch of the common InGen bridges in a big line.
I know, that's how I made mine too...

Image
Image
Which one looks better?
I've brought all the bridges into Max and will eventually be modifying them to fit the terrain, or combine them when necessary.. which also means I'll be taking some of the posts out, I don't think it needs quite that many. :P
BTW, I've made some corrections to the ones from the Mystery/Lost Models (fixed the pivots, stuff like that) in case you want them...
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Post by Draconisaurus »

machf wrote:Like this?
Image

Or this?
Image

The first one is from Paint Shop Pro, the second one is from Wally.
Niiiice.... any idea if this feature is in Photoshop? If not I will probably try to procure one of those two. 8)
machf wrote:You mean different LOD models, then? Because 'mipmaps' refer ONLY to textures. Does Trespasser actually use different LOD models calcualted on-the-fly? I was under the impression it used constant LOD, switching to 2-D sprites after a certain distance, and just changing mipmaps for the textures in-between. Different LOD models tend NOT to be generated "on the fly"... I doubt Trespasser was THAT advanced.
Well whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's done on the fly. Here's a video to help explain, you can see it "popping" to new LOD images once you've moved a great enough angle/distance with respect to the object:

http://dracoastreus.co.uk/jpds/video/mip2.rar
Image

It works fine when the angle of difference from the leaves is great enough:
Image
(image from JPDS~testing; wollemi tree is in the center)
machf wrote:
Ahh really? That's fun.. Nem uses a similar set-up as well. Actually those bridges are temporary.. it's just a bunch of the common InGen bridges in a big line.
I know, that's how I made mine too...

Image
Image
Which one looks better?
To be honest, the InGen bridge is best suited for that location.. because the SSbridge doesn't seem to have anythign in the way of vertical supports :? I mean.. idk maybe that shouldn't be an issue. I really like how you've got it to support vehicle width... (although that's one of the arguments against its use here) Is that scaled up at all from the one I put in PV? Also about the pivots.. that's cool. :) If you want to send me an updated PV grf/scn sometime (modded off of my latest release), with that and other updates.. please do so!
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Post by machf »

Draconisaurus wrote: Niiiice.... any idea if this feature is in Photoshop? If not I will probably try to procure one of those two. 8)
Sorry, I don't use Photoshop, for several reasons.
Well whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's done on the fly. Here's a video to help explain, you can see it "popping" to new LOD images once you've moved a great enough angle/distance with respect to the object:
As I said, that's just the texture mipmaps. The only way Trespasser (or any/most of the games I know) can handle different LOD models is by having them already present, not by generating them "on the fly". Trespasser uses the various

Code: Select all

string Detail1 = "$LODmodelname"
and

Code: Select all

float A01 = distance
parameters for that, so you can see they are pre-existing ones. Any model which doesn't have any LOD meshes defined will just use texture mipmaps applied to the original mesh. Keep in mind that, if a texture has an opacity map, it will be mipmapped too, and that can result in some previously visible areas becoming invisible and vice-versa. I stand by my earlier suggestion, try making your own mipmaps and replacing the current ones with SWPadd. Also, can you use SWPext to extract the textures of your tree with all its mipmaps to see them? And, how many triangles does your tree have? Are the branches a separate object from the trunk? Trespasser can't have too many high-poly object in the same view at the same time... it will either not render some of them, or just crash.
To be honest, the InGen bridge is best suited for that location.. because the SSbridge doesn't seem to have anythign in the way of vertical supports :? I mean.. idk maybe that shouldn't be an issue.
Well, I still have to add those. I've been wondering how it was meant to be supported in the first place.
I really like how you've got it to support vehicle width... (although that's one of the arguments against its use here) Is that scaled up at all from the one I put in PV?
It's scaled by a factor of 2.0 from the original mesh (had it already before you added it to your PV level).
Also about the pivots.. that's cool. :) If you want to send me an updated PV grf/scn sometime (modded off of my latest release), with that and other updates.. please do so!
I'd rather send you just the bridges...
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Post by Second Illiteration »

Download wally it's free...
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Post by Mickey »

Draconisaurus wrote:
machf wrote:Like this?
Image

Or this?
Image

The first one is from Paint Shop Pro, the second one is from Wally.
Niiiice.... any idea if this feature is in Photoshop? If not I will probably try to procure one of those two. 8)
of course photoshop has that :P
Image
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Post by Draconisaurus »

Hey thanks Mickey! I'll ask you how to get that in msn. ;) And machf the bridges would be cool.. though I used an exsiting palette for their textures. What did you use?


BTW, machf: it seems like they are the same bridges in this image:
http://trescom.3dactionplanet.gamespy.c ... age016.jpg

If you look, the 'broken', 'wrecked', and 'S' bridge all appear to be in the image. Almost looks like they are situated above a swamp or marsh.. which they never did figure out how to do in Tres. Actually... Marsh...!!! Hey thanks! :mrgreen:
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Post by RexHunter99 »

I hope you're not thinking of making a marsh now as that would ruin my evil plans in "Ultimate Exumed"
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Post by Draconisaurus »

No comment (secrets dev material etc.) but I will note that I haven't suddenly thought of a new location, just a new idea for an existing one.
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I think im getting to know you to well.
*steps back and observes from afar*
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Post by machf »

Draconisaurus wrote:
BTW, machf: it seems like they are the same bridges in this image:
http://trescom.3dactionplanet.gamespy.c ... age016.jpg

If you look, the 'broken', 'wrecked', and 'S' bridge all appear to be in the image.
Hmmm... then that's what they were used for? No wonder there aren't any supports...
Almost looks like they are situated above a swamp or marsh.. which they never did figure out how to do in Tres. Actually... Marsh...!!! Hey thanks! :mrgreen:
Come on, stop thinking of adding new things to JPDS and get it done already...!
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Post by Draconisaurus »

Hahaha ok fine. The marsh has been in production since.. oh idk. Sometime around.. october? More or less. We've already got much of it planned out and I have a library of location references for foliage modelling/placement. (some terrain models are already completed) If you must know... my idea was to perhaps put htis bridge there. Wasn't originally going to have any InGen stuff in the marsh itself, really..
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