JP: Dark Secrets - Old Thread (updates Dec. 04 - March 07)

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Draconisaurus
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Post by Draconisaurus »

T.rexrules wrote:Are there going to be Velociraptors hiding in there.
You quoted an entire post from something like 2 years ago to ask that in the archive thread? :yum: The EA isn't a great place for raptors, but they'll be involved somehow, don't worry. For the most part, the EA is going to be infested with Coelophysis.
Anyway, if I were a mod, I would have locked this thread after I made it an archive..
Rebel wrote:Drac, you have too many $models attached to your ds_tree. If
memory serves, only 9 can be assigned. The wise old tree has
sub-objects at its base btw, not $models.
lol, sub-objects and $models are the same to me.. :lol: but I know what you mean, WOT uses invisible instances for the base. Something which, in the old days, I forgot to bring into JPDS, so there are a ton of WiseOldTrees around with intangible roots sticking out..
Anyway, that problem is 2 years old, and was solved 2 years ago; Trespasser in fact supports 10 subobjects (00 through 09). The tree can be found in JPDS~testing.. if memory serves, I just got rid of some unneeded objects, as they were only higher branches. Also, you replied to this problem at the time, which is funny cause you remembered the 10 subobjects rule, it's all good we know you haven't been modding in a long time ^_^;;
Rebel (Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:47 am) wrote:Nice. Good to see serious efforts put forth into a project. I'll give you a few quick answers (TptDac may offer you more indept responses ;) )..

Whenever possible, use tpm format over 3ds files. If you're using Max, there's import/export scripts available on Remdul's private site that are more up-to-date than those of Andres' TresEd site.

$Objects can only total 10. 0 - 9. Anything over that generally cause fatal errors and/or crashes. If you note the wise old tree in tc_isle, we added sub-objects to the models individually as well as the main model's $objects inside the script to workaround that limit.
Heh, actually that's not possible, as I recall discovering back then. It was the invisible instances as I pointed out - funny thing, during production of ED, I discovered the CEntityAttached object in the SS Venture, used for the rocking control deck, that had its own subobjects. Before this, I hadn't realized that was possible - and it is now how I give more than 10 subobjects to any model, as with the wooden stairs in ED that get kicked off as the boat leaves (it has something like 12 steps - I detatched a single step from the model and turned it into the CEntityAttached which has the 2 extra subobjects).
(continued) wrote: If you're using a blank level, the swp files have a preset limit of 6.1mbs of available swap file space. Offset in pid file: 0x26 -- Use a hex editor to change value '6000' to a higher value ie. '9000' to increase available swp space. tc_isle uses a preset value of over 14mbs: 0000 D900

Unless you're using alot of 16 bit textures, I doubt you'll need such a high value, so input whatever value that suits your needs. ( Can use the hex editor's data viewer or GeomAdd's verify level function to find estimated swp space available)

Lastly, pid values (swp space) can only be changed before initial texture imports, ie. if you're using the minilev which already has textures applied to the swp file, changing the swp space value inside the pid could possibly cause a game crash. If needed, you can download my Lev_U_Name file over at TresCom which contains blanked out swp and pid files. Simply rename a copy of those files to your own level name, change pid value, then use GeomAdd to update Swp file.

*Always keep a folder which contains all level textures. Enables you to do full swp updates at any time.

*Values text can contain multiple value listings, though the values txt. file's name must match the 3ds or tpm file name.

ie. mymodel.3ds/tpm = mymodel.values *1 typo error is enough to force GeomAdd to skip the values file and import model without desired values....

*If you're using an original swp file, the amount of textures that you may add is rather limited.

*TresEd terrain is slightly different than in-game terrain. That's something you just have to adjust to. If everything appears to be a foot to low in-game, keep that in mind during object placement. It might be a slight inconvenience, but nothing compared to how difficult the process was before tresed was able to load proper terrain. Before that, object placement was a nightmare --
(Haha, wow, a time when Rebel didn't force-wrap his posts? I didn't realize there was such a thing..)
Oh and, looks like Rebel forewarned me about the terrain nightmares when using TresEd terrain. :| I didn't realize that...
Rebel (present) wrote: *You should probably avoid labeling your $objects sequentially
too, since the engine may consider those instances of treea-00
(which probably doesn't even exist, does it?).

Try something like;

$MainTrunk-00, $BranchA-00, $BranchB-00, and so on...
Nah, the sequence error is only when the dash "-" is used - even if a number doesn't follow, the engine will interprit this as a copy of a mesh with the same name prior to the dash, if it exists. Originally when I created the Utility Shed, it had names like "UtilityShed-Exterior", "UtilityShed-Interior", etc. which caused such wacky problems.
Technically, we broke rules we weren't aware of back then as
well. All Models require the '-00' appendage. We got a-
way with it, but there's no reason not to follow the rules now
that we're aware of them.
Haha, interesting way to put it. They don't all need -00 if there are no submodels involved.. it's just kind of messy level design, to have "BarrelA" and then "BarrelA-01"... But I'll tell you, it's totally unnecessary for uniquie models. For example.. something like "$Bush00-00", "$Bush01-00" etc. is nothing but a waste of numbers. If you're not using cloned instances of any subobjects, just do "$Bush00", "$Bush01", etc. The -00 will turn into a real headache after a while, if you don't leave it off where it isn't needed. I also don't use "-00" for primary building elements (walls floors etc.), since most buildings are unique.
Shadow Wolf wrote:woah thanks for reviving this thread T.rexrules I didn't know it existed till you did, hmmmmm pretty cool, if this is public makes you wonder what they're working on in private... (radiating anticipation)
Lol, hey seriously... there aren't that many threads in the JPDS Public section, please feel free to read up when you have time, though I would prefer new posts to be in the more recent threads. ;) Did you actually read through this entire thread? That must have taken some time.. or maybe you just looked at the pretty pictures. :lol:
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Post by Rebel »

They don't all need -00 if there are no submodels involved.
That's cute. Even when you're wrong, you think you're right.


:lol:

Even the Tres_Dev Team broke their own engine rule, but
it still exists.

Warning.....
Mesh blah loading error, could not find master mesh blah-00.
Instance could not be created....

Somehow or another, the engine overlooks this and renders
the model, but it's still an error. The debug info is there for a
reason.

To catch errors...
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Post by Draconisaurus »

Sweet but how is it a true error if the level loads? :? Seems to me just like GeomAdd not knowing about new value names.. Possibly, the engine was updated without the debugger taking said updates into account, because it wasn't needed. Seriously, if there are no perceptible differences in behavior while playing or editing the level as a result of these things, I don't see how it counts. It's like saying my computer is in error state because there's a piece of lint inside the tower that's not part of the manufacturing plans. :cartman: That's not the best example but, doing any thing for its own sake doesn't forward any goal, and might even be a waste of time..
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Post by Rebel »

Well, let's just say our opinions differ, Drac. One has to assume
though that optimization is much better. As example, an eight
cylinder engine can run with five plugs firing, but it's going to run
like sh*t. You'll get to where you're going, but the ride could have
been much smoother.
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Post by machf »

Regarding the 10-subobjects limit... it's better to leave it at 9, when you have 10 the level can crash if you grab the object.
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Post by Draconisaurus »

machf wrote:Regarding the 10-subobjects limit... it's better to leave it at 9, when you have 10 the level can crash if you grab the object.
Interesting, noted.. although grabbable objects are different from those which aren't.. so anyway, it's probably a good idea to keep objects which can be manipulated to a relatively low subobject-count, considering the physics glitches that happen, anyway. Otherwise, sometimes you really need 10, and you can make it go higher when needed, with the attached entity method. I think the big problem is when the multiple, moveable physics start interacting with each other and multiple other physics elements too much..
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Post by T.rexrules »

Draconisaurus wrote:
T.rexrules wrote:Are there going to be Velociraptors hiding in there.
You quoted an entire post from something like 2 years ago to ask that in the archive thread? :yum: The EA isn't a great place for raptors, but they'll be involved somehow, don't worry. For the most part, the EA is going to be infested with Coelophysis.
Wait, wait, wait...do you mean Compysgnathus instead of Coelophysis? Or it's going to be Coelo.

And if you were talking to me... I DID read the whole thing. :o
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