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 Post subject: TC Ops Level Remake?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:04 pm 
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Albertosaurus
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I love that level but I find that the original tres dinos are strange to have, because the sequel (TC Isle) has completly new dino. My question is: Will there be a remake of the TC Ops Level? The same level but with the TC raptors, the OG Rex, the OG Albert, and a new trike (OG?) and maybe a bit of other updates.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Albertosaurus
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You really could update the dinosaurs yourself....


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:22 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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And make it ATX-compatible in the process?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:24 am 
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It was atx-compatible at 1.62 version, I haven't a clue what might have happened in later versions, I don't have the retail installed at the moment, so have no first hand experience to form a comment. Maybe it's that damn large patch snafu that everyone loves to install and which I think sucks muck.

No remake. tc isle is a different island, different dinos... there's no need for continuity in that respect. Besides, we're all much too lazy these days. :|


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:53 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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Rebel wrote:
It was atx-compatible at 1.62 version, I haven't a clue what might have happened in later versions, I don't have the retail installed at the moment, so have no first hand experience to form a comment.

Hmmm... it crashes with 1.59.

Quote:
Maybe it's that damn large patch snafu that everyone loves to install and which I think sucks muck.

It works fine with the large patch, thank you.

Quote:
No remake. tc isle is a different island, different dinos... there's no need for continuity in that respect.

That was clear.

Quote:
Besides, we're all much too lazy these days. :|

I guess everybody already suspected that... :wink:

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Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:15 am 
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Yup, it's called old age. Normally, in bed by 8 and up at 4 (but have tomorrow off so hoorah for me ;) ).

If I live a couple 2, 3, 6 months I'll get to buy me one of them thar it's nifty to be fifty hats. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Albertosaurus
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I'm not even close to old and I feel that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Albertosaurus
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machf wrote:
And make it ATX-compatible in the process?

Oh yes, I forgot about that problem. I agree if a remake was to be made it would need to be fixed.

Rebel wrote:
Maybe it's that damn large patch snafu that everyone loves to install and which I think sucks muck.

No, that's not the problem at all, it work with the original tres (with or without full patch) and not with ATX. Why do you hate the full patch anyways?

Rebel wrote:
No remake. tc isle is a different island, different dinos... there's no need for continuity in that respect. Besides, we're all much too lazy these days. :|

I did not mean using the exact same dinos from TC Isle, just update the dinos with better models, like reskined lost jungle raptors or something. Maybe also add a volcano so that we know where the lava next to the temple comes from. Well... it's too bad, I really wanted to see jumping raptors in that level. :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:25 am 
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Sorry. I'd like to accommodate you, but I have neither the energy nor the time for level editing anymore. I'm more a left-over from our hayday here, stop in when I can, read a bit, post if I feel like doing so.

You could always use an earlier version of atx as I mentioned, Big Red actually used the tc ops level for testing early on (that's one of the pictures on his site, raptors in the grass leaping).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:05 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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This may explain it:

Quote:
Verifying instances...
WARNING: Instance Platform50 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform52 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform53 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform54 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform55 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform56 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance Platform57 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance eshed_w01 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance eshed_w02 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance eshed_w09 has zero or negative scale.
WARNING: Instance eshed_w11 has zero or negative scale.


I'll see if changing those values to positive fixes it...

UPDATE: OK, it loaded with ATX after I made those changes, but it crashed with a "fatal error" message after a little while, when I approached the Brachs. It may have to do with draw distance, now...

UPDATE 2: Well, I lowered the Draw Distance from 160 to 60 and then I could play the level all the way to the end, without problems.

A quick patch could just take this list of values and replace them in the .grf file, and overwrite the .scn file with the new one:


Code:
00047854: 2D 2C
0004B63C: 3F 3D
0004B818: D9 D8
0004B820: 1A 19
0004B844: BD BE
0004B84C: B6 B7
0004C3F8: 4D 4E
0004DC61: 07 0F
0004DCE4: A6 A5
0004E448: 46 DB
0004E449: 05 0F
0004E4A0: 46 DB
0004E4A1: 05 0F
0004E4CC: 46 DB
0004E4CD: 05 0F
0004E4F8: 46 DB
0004E4F9: 05 0F
0004E524: 46 DB
0004E525: 05 0F
0004F188: CD CE
00051150: 51 DB
00051151: 0D 0F
00053DD0: 5B 59
00055008: F8 3A
00055009: 9C 20
0005500A: DE 79
0005500B: B3 B4
0005500C: 5A 59
00055010: B7 B6
0005752C: AA 65
0005752D: 07 08
00057741: 6F 7F
0005B4B4: 53 4E
0005B4BC: A9 27
0005B4BD: B0 B1
0005B4C0: D7 B6
0005B4C4: 7E F5
0005B4C8: 16 92
0005B4C9: 0E 0D
0005B4CC: CC 24
0005B4CD: DA DB
0005B4CF: C0 40
0005B698: C4 C9
0005B69C: 34 37
0005B6A0: 44 27
0005B6A4: D7 B6
0005B6A8: 1F AF
0005B6A9: 79 78
0005B6AC: 74 52
0005B6B0: 77 74
0005B6B1: 25 24
0005B6B3: BF 3F
0005BA34: 0E 0A
0005BA38: 5A 58
0005BA3C: CA 2D
0005BA3D: B1 B2
0005BA40: D7 B6
0005BA44: 1F AF
0005BA45: 79 78
0005BA48: 74 52
0005BA4C: C1 0E
0005BA4D: 0A 0B
0005BA4F: C0 40
0005C070: C4 3B
0005C071: 0E 23
0005C074: A4 A5
0005C198: C3 CB
0005C19C: 77 75
0005C1A0: 16 27
0005C1A4: C8 D5
0005C1A8: 3A 15
0005C1AC: BC A6
0005C1B0: 1B 85
0005C1B1: 7E 7C
0005C1B3: BF 3F
0005C25C: 33 34
0005C980: 79 81
0005C984: BB BA
0005C988: 03 2D
0005C98C: 3A 1E
0005C990: 5F CE
0005C994: 0E 19
0005C998: 1B 85
0005C999: 7E 7C
0005C99B: BF 3F
0005E041: 07 0F
0005E070: 7C 7D
0005E09C: 7C 7D
0005E5B0: 38 3F
0005E5B4: 53 50
0005E5B8: 2A 21
0005E5BC: 3B 1E
0005E5C0: 0C 83
0005E5C4: 6E 45
0005E5C8: 1B 85
0005E5C9: 7E 7C
0005E5CB: BF 3F
0005E634: F3 F6
0005E638: 98 96
0005E63C: 16 27
0005E640: AE B0
0005E644: 32 15
0005E648: 8A A0
0005E64C: 1D 85
0005E64D: 7E 7C
0005E64F: BF 3F
0005F248: 31 34
0005F249: 53 F1
0005F24A: FE 37
0005F24B: B5 B4
0005F24C: 8E 65
0005F250: 33 41
0005F508: 40 08
0005F50C: 4D 4F
0005F510: 81 65
000616E4: EA E9
00061C38: E8 E7
00061C3C: B4 B5
00062A7C: 0E 0F
00062A80: DE 09
00062A81: DE BA
00064EEC: 68 67
00064F48: 0A 0B
000659F4: 1A 1B
00067960: 6B 6A
00067964: EF F0
0006987C: 8B 90
00069884: 58 0E
00069F88: 76 78
00069F8C: 05 08
00069F90: 40 AB
00069F91: CB C9
00070A48: 17 B8
00070A49: 3B 51
00072228: 2C 2B
0007222C: 39 3A
000735EC: C8 C7
000735F0: 2D 2F
000740EC: E7 E5
000740F0: 1D 27
000740F4: 7C 7B
00078004: 96 97
00078008: 8E 8D
00079FA8: 5F 5E
0007A02C: 5F 5E
0007A0DC: 5F 5E
0007A898: E3 E2
0007B434: 7E 7F
0007B438: 9F A0
0007B43C: D1 A0
0007B44C: 16 7C
0007B44D: 13 14
0007B44F: BF 3F
0007B460: 11 0A
0007B464: 3B 37
0007B468: AC A0
0007B478: AC C2
0007B47B: BF 3F
0007B594: F5 F4
0007B598: 91 93
0007B59C: 46 6A
0007B5A0: DA DB
0007B5A4: 77 76
0007B5AB: C0 40
0007B5AC: EE 2A
0007B5AD: 5A 5C
0007B5AF: BF 3F
0007B5EC: F5 F4
0007B5F0: 5E 60
0007B5F4: 46 6A
0007B5F8: DA DB
0007B5FC: 77 76
0007B603: C0 40
0007B604: EE 2A
0007B605: 5A 5C
0007B607: BF 3F
0007B7D0: 85 7F
0007B7D4: 00 02
0007B7D8: 2D 8D
0007B7DC: DA DB
0007B7E0: FF 00
0007B7E1: FF 00
0007B7E2: BF 00
0007B7E3: B3 B4
0007B7E4: DA DB
0007B7E8: 8B 2B
0007BA48: FA FC
0007EA3C: 7E 7F
0007F5ED: 0F 07
0007FCF4: 19 1A
00080DCC: 91 90
00080DD0: A9 A6
0008142C: 50 F5
0008142D: FB FA
000814B0: 50 F5
000814B1: FB FA
000814DC: 50 F5
000814DD: FB FA
00081508: 50 F5
00081509: FB FA
00081560: 50 F5
00081561: FB FA
0008158C: 50 F5
0008158D: FB FA
000815B8: 50 F5
000815B9: FB FA
000815E4: 50 F5
000815E5: FB FA
00081610: 50 F5
00081611: FB FA
0008163C: 50 F5
0008163D: FB FA
00081668: 50 F5
00081669: FB FA
00081694: 50 F5
00081695: FB FA
000816C0: 50 F5
000816C1: FB FA
00081718: 50 F5
00081719: FB FA
00081744: 50 F5
00081745: FB FA
00081770: 50 F5
00081771: FB FA
0008179C: 50 F5
0008179D: FB FA
000817C8: 50 F5
000817C9: FB FA
000817F4: 50 F5
000817F5: FB FA
00081820: 50 F5
00081821: FB FA
0008184C: 50 F5
0008184D: FB FA
00082848: E2 1B
00082849: F4 F5
00082ADC: E2 1B
00082ADD: F4 F5
00083344: 92 91
000834FC: 93 92
0008397C: D4 D5
000839A4: D7 D6
00083F7D: 07 0F
000840B0: 6A 91
000840B1: FD A5
000840B2: 45 4B
00084160: 52 51
00088910: 3C 3B
000889BC: C9 4C
000889BD: 31 8C
00088A14: C9 4C
00088A15: 31 8C
00088A40: C9 4C
00088A41: 31 8C
00088AC4: C9 4C
00088AC5: 31 8C
00088AF0: C9 4C
00088AF1: 31 8C
00088B1C: C9 4C
00088B1D: 31 8C
00088E60: C9 4C
00088E61: 31 8C
00088E8C: C9 4C
00088E8D: 31 8C
00088EB8: C9 4C
00088EB9: 31 8C
00088EE4: C9 4C
00088EE5: 31 8C
00088F10: C9 4C
00088F11: 31 8C
00088FC0: C9 4C
00088FC1: 31 8C
00088FEC: C9 4C
00088FED: 31 8C
00089018: C9 4C
00089019: 31 8C
00089044: C9 4C
00089045: 31 8C
000890C8: C9 4C
000890C9: 31 8C
000890F4: C9 4C
000890F5: 31 8C
00089120: C9 4C
00089121: 31 8C
0008914C: C9 4C
0008914D: 31 8C
00089178: C9 4C
00089179: 31 8C
000892D8: C9 4C
000892D9: 31 8C
00089330: C9 4C
00089331: 31 8C
000893E0: 7C 7D
000893E4: 80 7B
00089678: 7C 7B
00089F90: BB BA
00089F94: EA EB
00089FC0: 49 4A
0008A044: 49 4A
0008A070: 49 4A
0008CDF8: F3 FD
0008CDF9: 04 6E
0008CDFA: 35 36
0008CE28: EA EB
0008E690: A7 A8
0008E9F8: 56 55
0008E9FC: B0 B1
0008EAB0: A8 A9
000903C4: 10 2C
00090628: 00 F9
00090629: 16 15
0009062C: 7F 80
0009201C: DD DC
00092020: FC FD
0009A18C: 16 E9
0009ABDC: 24 7F
0009AC08: 24 7F
0009AC38: 23 22
0009AC8C: 65 6A
0009AC8D: 48 FD
0009ACB8: 65 6A
0009ACB9: 48 FD
0009ACE8: 22 23
0009B99C: F5 9B
0009B9C8: F5 9B
0009B9F4: F5 9B
0009BA20: F5 9B
0009BA4C: F5 9B
0009BA78: F5 9B
0009BAA4: F5 9B
0009BAD0: F5 9B
0009BAFC: F5 9B
0009BB28: F5 9B
0009BB54: F5 9B
0009BB80: F5 9B
0009BBAC: F5 9B
0009BBD8: F5 9B
0009BC04: F5 9B
0009BC30: F5 9B
0009BC5C: F5 9B
0009BC88: F5 9B
0009BCB4: F5 9B
0009BCE0: F5 9B
0009C998: FD DD
0009D651: 07 0F
0009D9ED: 07 0F
0009DCAD: 0F 07
0009E334: 72 73
0009E35C: 39 3A
0009E360: 91 93
0009E364: 90 92
0009E388: 37 38
0009E38C: F4 F2
0009E390: 59 5C
0009E518: 73 72
0009E51C: 29 2B
0009E56C: A7 A8
0009E574: C5 CD
0009E5C8: 4B 4D
0009E5CC: 6D 6E
0009E7D8: B3 B4
0009E9E4: DE DC
0009E9E8: 52 53
0009E9EC: C1 C0
0009EA98: 3F 3E
0009EB1C: 9D 9E
0009EB20: D0 CC
0009FAED: 07 0F
0009FB98: B3 A7
0009FB99: 3A EF
0009FB9C: 01 02
0009FBF5: 0F 07
0009FC78: 28 FA
0009FC79: 04 03
000A01A0: 0C 0B
000A03AC: F4 F5
000A03D8: F4 F5
000A07FC: 8A 30
000A0988: E2 E1
000A4845: 0F 07
000A489D: 07 0F

(of each pair, the first one is the old value, the second is the new one; the .scn file is just 279KB, so it can be inlcuded in full, while the .grf file is 15MB, hence the patch should write new values at those file offsets...)

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Seems that I'm using a different version of the ops level than everyone else. I created a patch for the level a few years back which fixed various errors (like those negative scales) and a few other scripting snafus that Remdul mentioned to me, but I never did release it. In my version of the level, there are no bracs either (they were replaced with a scene a little more framerate friendly).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:25 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Hmmm... now I remember I first saw a patch for the TC Ops level just a couple of months ago. It definitely needs more publicity, its existence is being ignored by almost everyone...

EDIT: found it on one of my recent backup discs... it's called "TC-PatchA.exe", 754KB. It only replaces the .scn file, apparently...
But I can't remember where I found it...

EDIT2: No, apparently that's not it, the negative values are still there...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:33 am 
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Well...Rebel lied. He ain't lazy. Tired, perhaps. But not lazy. :)

I'm the lazy one here. :oops:

And without someone pushing polygons, there isn't going to be much new stuff to see.

I don't have as much time as I used to have, and my motivation is not what it used to be. I'm trying to make a living also. Right now, I just maintain the site/forums and sort out some business out every once in a while. It won't be likely I'll ever get back as active modeler or tool-dev.

You know, the things is, Trespasser is great, and we still enjoy it, and the community and stuff around the game. It is good stuff. Trespasser will forever be tied to good memories.

Anyway, after a while you just want to move on. Look for new stuff to spend your time on. TresCom will last for a long time to come, no doubt. Heck, we've outlasted pretty much all other JP-related sites. But people will come and go.

You shouldn't really rely to much on the Ops. The only purpose of 'the Ops' was to create some nice stuff in secrecy so the stuff would be a surprise for the other members.
Pretty much all we created is out there now, and you can do with it whatever you want.

If you want something new, the best thing is to create it yourself, and work together with others. Takes effort, but it is fun!
Many here started projects and never finished them, gave up. But if you stick your heads together, don't aim to high, all do a tiny bit, you can create something cool. Try it. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:05 am 
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Two words: open source. Why waste time and effort starting from zero again? Why not share what already has been achieved so that others can take it further from there?

I like that "and you can do with it whatever you want" part. Hopefully it means I can patch the TC levels and make the new versions available... though I'd like to see that patch Rebel was mentioning first, and append any further changes to it later, for example.

You may have seen my tool for finding CRC-32 hash values... its main purpose is to be able to use the unused sounds in new levels, but it can be used with textures in pretty much the same way. Even if you don't find the "official" string for a sound or texture, the ones the program finds can all be used instead to refer to it. (Of course, I prefer the "official" ones as they are more descriptive than some random alphanumerical string...) So, you see, there IS some new stuff coming out yet...

Oh, and how's that TPDC update going?

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Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:00 am 
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On regards of the open source thing: Most if not all achievements from the TCOPS are already openly available to the community. They may not come in seperate download packages, but the development threads were made public a few months ago and most of the models and scripts we created are also available here in the forum. I dislike the idea of making them seperate download-packages, because those models are actually worth alot of money and I wouldn't wanna share those with any other person than members of this forum...

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