More speculation based on what few we know...

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machf
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More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

hppav wrote:Here's a filesize comparison between the beta and the retail:
http://diehard.50webs.com/filesizecomparison.html
OK, so people have been saying things like "this was so much bigger on that beta" and stuff... let's go back to what we know

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Trespasser Audio Files (TPA)
	Ambient.tpa	Effects.tpa	Menu.tpa	Stream.tpa	
Retail	9175 KB	15696 KB	778 KB	132204 KB	
Beta	11154 KB	14823 KB	678 KB	127908 KB
The Menu.tpa file is now 100KB larger; that means maybe one sound was added since then.
Effects.tpa is less than 1MB larger now; maybe half a dozen or so new sounds were added? Or more, and at the same time, some were removed?
Stream.tpa became some 4MB larger; since it includes voiceovers an music, all of which are longer than, say, simple sound effects, it's no wonder, even the addition of a really few ones would have increased the filesize more than on any other .tpa files.
Ambient.tpa became about 2MB smaller; I wonder what was removed, since lots of ambient sounds fom PV still remain. Possibly some ones associated with the GeoPlant?

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Beach Level Files (BE)
	be.scn	be.wtd	be.grf	be-130.pid	be-130.spz
Retail	305 KB	27 KB	2609 KB	445 KB	31026 KB
Beta	242 KB	26 KB	2869 KB	401 KB	29430 KB
The .spz filesize was increased by ~1.5MB, meaning new textures were added; the .pid filesize was increased accordingly.
The .wtd filesize was increased by 1KB, so the terrain has been minimally edited, I guess adding more detail somewhere.
The .grf filsize was decreased by 260KB; an object or objects may have been removed or replaced. We know the player mesh ("Anne") was changed, could this account for it? Or was there more?
The.scn filesize was increased by ~60KB; more partitions due to the terrain editing, maybe?
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

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Jungle Road Level Files (JR)
	jr.scn	jr.wtd	jr.grf	jr-130.pid	jr-130.spz
Retail	588 KB	71 KB	4663 KB	811 KB	46212 KB
Beta	485 KB	70 KB	4825 KB	620 KB	38763 KB
Again, the .spz file has increased by ~7.5MB together with the .pid file, which implies more textures.
The .grf decreased by ~160KB, not as much as on the Beach level; that pistol must be part of what was deleted too.
The .wtd increased by 1KB; minimal changes.
And the .scn increased by 100KB. Hmmm...

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Industrial Jungle Level Files (IJ)
	ij.scn	ij.wtd	ij.grf	ij-130.pid	ij-130.spz
Retail	689 KB	94 KB	5932 KB	847 KB	42394 KB
Beta	751 KB	85 KB	5794 KB	828 KB	41766 KB
The .spz increased by 600KB (and the .pid accordingly), so not much added regarding textures.
The .grf also increased, means more objects were added than deleted.
And the .wtd had a 9KB increase; this implies more than a few changes to the terrain, certainly. The inclusion of the IJ2 gorge, most likely?
The .scn shows a decrease in size, OTOH...
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Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

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InGen Town Level Files (IT)
	it.scn	it.wtd	it.grf	it-130.pid	it-130.spz
Retail	770 KB	39 KB	7298 KB	940 KB	60019 KB
Beta	664 KB	37 KB	7530 KB	913 KB	62860 KB
A 2.8MB decrease in the .spz, but a 27KB increase in the .pid. Hmmm... RGB textures removed, but 8-bit paletted ones added?
A decrease of 230KB in the .grf file, meaning objects removed.
A 2KB increase in the .wtd; terrain changes.
And a 100KB+ increase in the .scn...

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Pine Valley Level Files (PV)
	pv/demo.scn	pv.wtd	pv/demo.grf	pv/demo-130.pid	pv-130.spz
Demo	153 KB	52 KB	4047 KB	292 KB	Not Applicable (Demo is swp)
Beta	572 KB	52 KB	4960 KB	659 KB	40997 KB
Using SWPz, I get a 1775KB file for the demo.spz; so, the decrease after removing textures becomes apparent as with the .pid.
The .grf also decreased over 900KB, given all the objects that were deleted (plus, the demo one isn't compressed, I think?).
The .wtd has had practically no changes in size, although we know terrain has been somewhat changed. Increases and decreases in detail cancel each other?
And the .scn decreased significantly...
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
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Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

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Laboratory Level Files (LAB)
	lab.scn	lab.wtd	lab.grf	lab-130.pid	lab-130.spz
Retail	529 KB	25 KB	5372 KB	749 KB	47620 KB
Beta	503 KB	22 KB	5234 KB	745 KB	46453 KB
.spz increased by 1.2MB, .pid increased accordingly; more textures added.
.grf increased by 150KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 3KB; terrain edited (most likely, what we know was changed at the start of the level).
.scn increased by 26KB.

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Ascent 1 Level Files (AS)
	as.scn	as.wtd	as.grf	as-130.pid	as-130.spz
Retail	414 KB	55 KB	3005 KB	414 KB	24685 KB
Beta	427 KB	55 KB	3366 KB	417 KB	26856 KB
.spz decreased by 2MB, .pid decreased accordingly; textures removed.
.grf decreased by 360KB; objects removed.
.wtd virtually identical; no terrain changes?
.scn decreased by 13KB.
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

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Ascent 2 Level Files (AS2)
	as2.scn	as2/as4.wtd	as2.grf	as2-130.pid	as2-130.spz
Retail	307 KB	51 KB	3322 KB	286 KB	20372
Beta	270 KB	50 KB	3002 KB	391 KB	24728 KB
.spz reduced by 4MB+, .pid reduced accordingly; textures removed.
.grf increased by 320KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 1KB; small changes to the terrain.
.scn increased by 37KB.

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Summit Level Files (SUM)
	sum.scn	sum.wtd	sum.grf	sum-130.pid	sum-130.spz
Retail	162 KB	20 KB	1680 KB	209 KB	12215 KB
Beta	159 KB	20 KB	1886 KB	175 KB	10572 KB
.spz increased by 1.7MB, .pid increased accordingly; textures added.
.grf decreased by 200KB; objects deleted.
.wtd virtually identical; no changes to terrain.
.scn increased by 3KB.

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Test Scene Level Files (TestScene)
	TestScene.scn	TestScene.wtd	TestScene.grf	TestScene-130.pid	TestScene-130.spz
Retail	54 KB	5 KB	1326 KB	164 KB	7374 KB
Beta	49 KB	5 KB	1192 KB	132 KB	6068 KB
.spz increased by 300KB, .pid increased accordingly; textures added.
.grf increased by 230KB; objects added.
.wtd virtually identical; no changes to terrain.
.scn increased by 5KB.
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by Draconisaurus »

I notice both ascents experienced lots of decrease by the time of retail. Hmm.
machf wrote:

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Laboratory Level Files (LAB)
	lab.scn	lab.wtd	lab.grf	lab-130.pid	lab-130.spz
Retail	529 KB	25 KB	5372 KB	749 KB	47620 KB
Beta	503 KB	22 KB	5234 KB	745 KB	46453 KB
.spz increased by 1.2MB, .pid increased accordingly; more textures added.
.grf increased by 150KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 3KB; terrain edited (most likely, what we know was changed at the start of the level).
.scn increased by 26KB.
Erm.. Maybe I read it wrong the first time. Could have sworn I saw the SPZ and GRF decrease. Well then, my harbor-in-pv theory still holds but has less support, now. If there are Pens in Lab, they were either so big that they made up for the harbor + more, or did not add many new models or textures.
As a note, retail SCN files include location data for all objects (as well as most everything else that a savegame has), not just scene partitions. So, change in SCN size can indicate a change in the number of objects; GRF changes include new/removed models, including more or less complex ones, and (to a lesser extent of the whole) more or less data on properties of specific instances.
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by machf »

Yes, the fact that the .scn depends on several variables is why I haven't tried to extract too many conclusions from them. When a change in the .grf is accompanied by a change in the opposite direction in the .scn, I'd suppose there's something else besides objects which are responsible of that change in the .scn size. Partitions are one possibility, particularly if the .wtd has changed in the same direction as the .scn; another could be adding/removing objects but at the same time removing/adding more instance of other objects... we can't know for sure until we're able to check the actual levels themselves.
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files
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Re: More speculation based on what few we know...

Post by Draconisaurus »

*nods*
Btw... I just checked the PV base texture, which I forgot about. No sign of harbor terrain objects, I'm doubting my own theory at this point..
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