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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:16 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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hppav wrote:
Here's a filesize comparison between the beta and the retail:
http://diehard.50webs.com/filesizecomparison.html


OK, so people have been saying things like "this was so much bigger on that beta" and stuff... let's go back to what we know
Code:
Trespasser Audio Files (TPA)
   Ambient.tpa   Effects.tpa   Menu.tpa   Stream.tpa   
Retail   9175 KB   15696 KB   778 KB   132204 KB   
Beta   11154 KB   14823 KB   678 KB   127908 KB


The Menu.tpa file is now 100KB larger; that means maybe one sound was added since then.
Effects.tpa is less than 1MB larger now; maybe half a dozen or so new sounds were added? Or more, and at the same time, some were removed?
Stream.tpa became some 4MB larger; since it includes voiceovers an music, all of which are longer than, say, simple sound effects, it's no wonder, even the addition of a really few ones would have increased the filesize more than on any other .tpa files.
Ambient.tpa became about 2MB smaller; I wonder what was removed, since lots of ambient sounds fom PV still remain. Possibly some ones associated with the GeoPlant?

Code:
Beach Level Files (BE)
   be.scn   be.wtd   be.grf   be-130.pid   be-130.spz
Retail   305 KB   27 KB   2609 KB   445 KB   31026 KB
Beta   242 KB   26 KB   2869 KB   401 KB   29430 KB


The .spz filesize was increased by ~1.5MB, meaning new textures were added; the .pid filesize was increased accordingly.
The .wtd filesize was increased by 1KB, so the terrain has been minimally edited, I guess adding more detail somewhere.
The .grf filsize was decreased by 260KB; an object or objects may have been removed or replaced. We know the player mesh ("Anne") was changed, could this account for it? Or was there more?
The.scn filesize was increased by ~60KB; more partitions due to the terrain editing, maybe?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:23 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Code:
Jungle Road Level Files (JR)
   jr.scn   jr.wtd   jr.grf   jr-130.pid   jr-130.spz
Retail   588 KB   71 KB   4663 KB   811 KB   46212 KB
Beta   485 KB   70 KB   4825 KB   620 KB   38763 KB

Again, the .spz file has increased by ~7.5MB together with the .pid file, which implies more textures.
The .grf decreased by ~160KB, not as much as on the Beach level; that pistol must be part of what was deleted too.
The .wtd increased by 1KB; minimal changes.
And the .scn increased by 100KB. Hmmm...

Code:
Industrial Jungle Level Files (IJ)
   ij.scn   ij.wtd   ij.grf   ij-130.pid   ij-130.spz
Retail   689 KB   94 KB   5932 KB   847 KB   42394 KB
Beta   751 KB   85 KB   5794 KB   828 KB   41766 KB

The .spz increased by 600KB (and the .pid accordingly), so not much added regarding textures.
The .grf also increased, means more objects were added than deleted.
And the .wtd had a 9KB increase; this implies more than a few changes to the terrain, certainly. The inclusion of the IJ2 gorge, most likely?
The .scn shows a decrease in size, OTOH...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:55 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Code:
InGen Town Level Files (IT)
   it.scn   it.wtd   it.grf   it-130.pid   it-130.spz
Retail   770 KB   39 KB   7298 KB   940 KB   60019 KB
Beta   664 KB   37 KB   7530 KB   913 KB   62860 KB

A 2.8MB decrease in the .spz, but a 27KB increase in the .pid. Hmmm... RGB textures removed, but 8-bit paletted ones added?
A decrease of 230KB in the .grf file, meaning objects removed.
A 2KB increase in the .wtd; terrain changes.
And a 100KB+ increase in the .scn...

Code:
Pine Valley Level Files (PV)
   pv/demo.scn   pv.wtd   pv/demo.grf   pv/demo-130.pid   pv-130.spz
Demo   153 KB   52 KB   4047 KB   292 KB   Not Applicable (Demo is swp)
Beta   572 KB   52 KB   4960 KB   659 KB   40997 KB

Using SWPz, I get a 1775KB file for the demo.spz; so, the decrease after removing textures becomes apparent as with the .pid.
The .grf also decreased over 900KB, given all the objects that were deleted (plus, the demo one isn't compressed, I think?).
The .wtd has had practically no changes in size, although we know terrain has been somewhat changed. Increases and decreases in detail cancel each other?
And the .scn decreased significantly...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:07 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Code:
Laboratory Level Files (LAB)
   lab.scn   lab.wtd   lab.grf   lab-130.pid   lab-130.spz
Retail   529 KB   25 KB   5372 KB   749 KB   47620 KB
Beta   503 KB   22 KB   5234 KB   745 KB   46453 KB

.spz increased by 1.2MB, .pid increased accordingly; more textures added.
.grf increased by 150KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 3KB; terrain edited (most likely, what we know was changed at the start of the level).
.scn increased by 26KB.

Code:
Ascent 1 Level Files (AS)
   as.scn   as.wtd   as.grf   as-130.pid   as-130.spz
Retail   414 KB   55 KB   3005 KB   414 KB   24685 KB
Beta   427 KB   55 KB   3366 KB   417 KB   26856 KB

.spz decreased by 2MB, .pid decreased accordingly; textures removed.
.grf decreased by 360KB; objects removed.
.wtd virtually identical; no terrain changes?
.scn decreased by 13KB.

_________________
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Code:
Ascent 2 Level Files (AS2)
   as2.scn   as2/as4.wtd   as2.grf   as2-130.pid   as2-130.spz
Retail   307 KB   51 KB   3322 KB   286 KB   20372
Beta   270 KB   50 KB   3002 KB   391 KB   24728 KB

.spz reduced by 4MB+, .pid reduced accordingly; textures removed.
.grf increased by 320KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 1KB; small changes to the terrain.
.scn increased by 37KB.

Code:
Summit Level Files (SUM)
   sum.scn   sum.wtd   sum.grf   sum-130.pid   sum-130.spz
Retail   162 KB   20 KB   1680 KB   209 KB   12215 KB
Beta   159 KB   20 KB   1886 KB   175 KB   10572 KB

.spz increased by 1.7MB, .pid increased accordingly; textures added.
.grf decreased by 200KB; objects deleted.
.wtd virtually identical; no changes to terrain.
.scn increased by 3KB.

Code:
Test Scene Level Files (TestScene)
   TestScene.scn   TestScene.wtd   TestScene.grf   TestScene-130.pid   TestScene-130.spz
Retail   54 KB   5 KB   1326 KB   164 KB   7374 KB
Beta   49 KB   5 KB   1192 KB   132 KB   6068 KB

.spz increased by 300KB, .pid increased accordingly; textures added.
.grf increased by 230KB; objects added.
.wtd virtually identical; no changes to terrain.
.scn increased by 5KB.

_________________
Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:34 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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I notice both ascents experienced lots of decrease by the time of retail. Hmm.

machf wrote:
Code:
Laboratory Level Files (LAB)
   lab.scn   lab.wtd   lab.grf   lab-130.pid   lab-130.spz
Retail   529 KB   25 KB   5372 KB   749 KB   47620 KB
Beta   503 KB   22 KB   5234 KB   745 KB   46453 KB

.spz increased by 1.2MB, .pid increased accordingly; more textures added.
.grf increased by 150KB; objects added.
.wtd increased by 3KB; terrain edited (most likely, what we know was changed at the start of the level).
.scn increased by 26KB.

Erm.. Maybe I read it wrong the first time. Could have sworn I saw the SPZ and GRF decrease. Well then, my harbor-in-pv theory still holds but has less support, now. If there are Pens in Lab, they were either so big that they made up for the harbor + more, or did not add many new models or textures.
As a note, retail SCN files include location data for all objects (as well as most everything else that a savegame has), not just scene partitions. So, change in SCN size can indicate a change in the number of objects; GRF changes include new/removed models, including more or less complex ones, and (to a lesser extent of the whole) more or less data on properties of specific instances.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:27 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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Yes, the fact that the .scn depends on several variables is why I haven't tried to extract too many conclusions from them. When a change in the .grf is accompanied by a change in the opposite direction in the .scn, I'd suppose there's something else besides objects which are responsible of that change in the .scn size. Partitions are one possibility, particularly if the .wtd has changed in the same direction as the .scn; another could be adding/removing objects but at the same time removing/adding more instance of other objects... we can't know for sure until we're able to check the actual levels themselves.

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Visit The Carnivores Saga - a forum devoted to modding Action Forms' Carnivores, Carnivores 2 and Carnivores: Ice Age games
Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:06 am 
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*nods*
Btw... I just checked the PV base texture, which I forgot about. No sign of harbor terrain objects, I'm doubting my own theory at this point..

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