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 Post subject: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:44 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Do you guys remember these images from an issue of Next Generation magazine?

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Well, they certainly are from a very early version of Pine Valley, earlier than the earliest one we have found yet (Build 22).

Not only is the Geothermal Plant at an angle, you can also see the small rock off the coast as a part of the terrain (like in Build 22). And notice that here the OOB (out-of-bounds) terrain hasn't been flattened yet... they probably did it later in order to reduce the size of the level files.

But the most interesting part is that in this versions, the level's terrain doesn't extend from (-256,0) to (1792,2048) like in the later versions, which is the same area as the Lab's... instead, it appears to extend from (-256,-256) to (1792,1792), and so it includes the dam and the road next to it.

Could this mean that this version was from before the Plains were cut off?

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Quote:
Not only is the Geothermal Plant at an angle, you can also see the small rock off the coast as a part of the terrain (like in Build 22). And notice that here the OOB (out-of-bounds) terrain hasn't been flattened yet... they probably did it later in order to reduce the size of the level files.


Probably. Not to mention that the terrain overall outside the player area is much higher quality than later cut downed ones.

Quote:
But the most interesting part is that in this versions, the level's terrain doesn't extend from (-256,0) to (1792,2048) like in the later versions, which is the same area as the Lab's... instead, it appears to extend from (-256,-256) to (1792,1792), and so it includes the dam and the road next to it.

Quote:
Could this mean that this version was from before the Plains were cut off?


Pretty likely imo. We know the Town from July 1998 does not include any part of Plains. It still point that the level ends at the East gate. Also worth noting is that IT is not present in Build 55, which is later than the Max version(s). I believe this might be because the IT Max version(s) lack most physics and triggers. It is possible Plains were still in the works here. Even PH was told to be cut of "early". However, there are a huge lacking of images from Plains, but possibly because it never made it into a fully playable level for any reviewers.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:33 pm 
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tatu wrote:
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Not only is the Geothermal Plant at an angle, you can also see the small rock off the coast as a part of the terrain (like in Build 22). And notice that here the OOB (out-of-bounds) terrain hasn't been flattened yet... they probably did it later in order to reduce the size of the level files.


Probably. Not to mention that the terrain overall outside the player area is much higher quality than later cut downed ones.

That's what I just mean... the out-of-bounds terrain is the one not accessible by the player, and the detail has been removed there. But not in the one shown in this image.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Is the blue object in the upper right of the first image supposed to be the dam model then? And the wavy blue lines are the roads? I always wondered what that blue object was, guess that makes sense.

So it would appear then that PV started before the gate you start at in the demo?

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Slugger wrote:
Is the blue object in the upper right of the first image supposed to be the dam model then? And the wavy blue lines are the roads? I always wondered what that blue object was, guess that makes sense.

Yes, that's it.

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So it would appear then that PV started before the gate you start at in the demo?

Maybe. Or maybe the terrrain just included that part but it started past the gate, who knows. The walkthrough from 1997 mentions that Anne must find a way to open the gate at the start of the level, but climbing/crossing the dam itself OTOH is listed as the final part of the Plains...

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:05 am 
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Just noticed that the catwalk in the bottom right of the second image extends past the turn that crosses the road. Hmm, It's that way in 55 but I just assumed that it was the product of copying objects and it would later be fixed, like the road to the east gate in the IT, but now I see there's another section of piping that wasn't present. These images definitely warrant a thourough examination.


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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Where would the bridge extension have lead to?

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Draconisaurus wrote:
Where would the bridge extension have lead to?


It is still present in Build 22, 32 and 55. However, it doesn't appear to be leading anywhere but might have been planned for something.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:27 am 
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There's also that PV heightmap in the source as well. is it even older than that?


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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:01 am 
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I'd say so. Too bad they can't be compared directly.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:42 am 
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I know this sounds like a dumb question but why is pine valley so special? Is it like the green planet from serious sam where it wasn't removed until like a week after the game released making it the most finnished cut level.


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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Something like that. It appears to have been removed barely a month before the final release.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Quite. As well, the Trespasser Demo used the same terrain (and other elements) as PV, allowing for a concentrated reconstruction effort in the years before the beta was found. Concept art was scoured, theories written out and discussed. Used to be a pretty big thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:22 am 
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I am gonna say PV was a huge thing because it was used so much in pre-released images and articles of the game. It was also, at that time, the only level we know that was in development to get cut late on, and with all the images and information about it, it is only natural for a community to try to recreate it.

Of course, now we have quite a few versions of it, but now no one have made a "fixed" version of it :P

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"...there used to be more benches, but InGen's workers removed them during the evacuation in the name of framerate."

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 Post subject: Re: Pine Valley again...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Huh lol. We got pretty far back in the day but never 100%.

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