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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:40 pm 
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This is my research conducted into the Plains level itself. I've been using a lot of reference to try to figure out the mystery of this level, and here's what I've got so far. The best image I know of showing the terrain of Plains is this one:

Image

In this image, the green line is north. Those pink boxes are supposedly river objects, but to me they look like Bakers that outline the various mountain ranges in this level. Additionally, the blue box in the left corner is apparently the area where the player was meant to start the level.

I just did a quick and dirty import of a number of objects from the Plains level into my complete Isla Sorna terrain, and the results contradict what I'd previously thought about the plains. It seems that the area is further north than I'd thought. The blue box is situated at the end of the mountain range on the east side of the town, which runs roughly all the way to the ocean. If Anne were meant to leave the Southern Gate of the Town, she would go down a long valley before coming to the ocean. This is mentioned in the walkthrough:

Quote:
Anne will have to find some other way to get to the plains, so she sets out in the only direction available: east towards the sea.


However, it also contradicts other facts in the walkthrough, specifically the ones that point to the intended exit direction being the Eastern Gate instead (the one you usually exit the Town from), since the prior area of text says this:

Quote:
Once outside the town, the player finds herself on the North Road, which leads through to the laboratory facilities eventually. This road ascends a steep ridge almost immediately, but whatever cut-rate engineer Hammond hired to build this road managed instead to create a convenient run-off sluice for the rainy season. What used to be a nice, gently-sloped road has washed out down its entire length, becoming a series of ledges connected by streambeds, completely unclimbable. (alternate solution: the road has a bridge to allow passage up a cliff, but the bridge is wrecked).

This is undoubtedly the valley that leads to the Dam in Retail. But if the starting area of PL was supposed to be up by the coast where the box is, that would mean the player would have to exit IT through the Southern Gate. Very strange. It seems by reading this that the player would have entered the same area that they do in retail, but the washouts on the road would extend into streambeds which would in turn prevent them from reaching the Dam. The quote
Quote:
Anne will have to find some other way to get to the plains, so she sets out in the only direction available: east towards the sea.

clearly indicates that you would then have had to go East, but in retail this direction is blocked by a steep cliff that looks like it wasn't originally intended to be there. This would have led the player down a valley between the mountains east of the Town (seen as the pink boxes on the left of the first image) and the mountains east of the Dam (seen as the pink boxes in the center of the first image) to the seaside, and east to where the blue box is. Now, there are two possibilities here:

1. The player left the Southern Gate of the Town, followed a valley east to the ocean, jumped along the coast and began PL where the blue box is located, which in turn means the entire area between the Eastern Gate and the Dam was the Plains, and that the open area between the central and right pink box lines was a second, more heavily-forested area of the Plains. This makes sense because that would mean the Dam valley with the North Road would be accessible from the start of PL, but contradicts the walkthrough saying the player exits through the East Gate...which means that at one point it is possible that the East Gate was actually the South Gate. :sick:
2. The player left the Eastern Gate of the Town directly into the Dam valley, then turned East past the T-rexes into a valley, which led to the ocean, jumped along the coast and ended up in a smaller Plains area, which is the area between the right-most line of pink boxes and the central one - this situates the Plains between Mount Watson and the mountains in the center, to the direct east of the Dam. However, this would prevent players from even reaching the Dam at all. This is more accurate to the walkthrough, but makes less sense terrain-wise.

Quote:
Cliffside puzzle
After paralleling the ridge for a few hundred meters, Anne comes across some cliffs at the seaside, where the ridge runs out. Anne must proceed around the end of the cliff , hopping down from tiny ledge to tiny ledge, all the while 12 meters above the rocky coast. Once she has completed this section, by making one last drop, further than she can jump back up, she has entered the plains area.

Either way, the player definitely enters the Plains from the east, by the coast.

Quote:
Looking around, the player is presented with the grand vista of the plains. For more than a kilometer, open, short-grassed terrain dotted with occasional clumps of trees gently rolls off into the distance. Brachiosaurs are visible in the extreme distance, grazing on the few trees, and nearby a stegosaurus family and a pair of triceratops drink from the same. The land gently slopes up, and Anne might just be able to make out a vast gray concrete structure in the distance - the dam to which she must eventually travel.

Obvious enough - this is the area between the Dam and the start of PL. If she can make out the Dam in the distance, there is a possibility that the central pink line of boxes was indeed an actual streambed, and that the mountains to the east of the Dam were instead a stream (except for a small area where the Dam itself would be attached to cliffs - this area is the gap between the central pink boxes and the right-side pink boxes) as the mountains would obscure the view.

Quote:
Gate to Town
The road that used to run to the town is blocked by a gate. The gate includes a sign that reads, "Warning! Remote-operated gate system. Have your signal ready." On the ground nearby is a remote-control signaller, a small box with a space for a battery. The battery in it is corroded-looking and plainly non-functional..

Could THIS be the Eastern Gate that you exit the Town from..? If so, that would clear up everything and determine that the Eastern Gate is indeed the Southern Gate in actuality.

Quote:
*Blockhouse
a small cement structure in the extreme north of the plains, contains some items which hint at some sort of story: a child's toy, some dishes, a weapon.

This is present in the Plains level we have. It's north of the central pink box line, which lines up with its description in the walkthrough.

Quote:
*Crashed plane
(to the north, near the shore, has guns, some sort of physical puzzle to get up inside, whole thing unbalanced?)

*T-Rex encounter
(evade a T-Rex near the downed radio tower? Make him chase you into a pack of stegs/trikes?)

Very little information on any of this, though the Rex encounter could potentially be the same spot as you encounter the pair of them in retail IT.

Quote:
*Watering hole
A pond between two small ridges is one of the largest watering holes in the area. This is a good place for Anne to look for a dinosaur with a tag, and a good place to make dinosaurs have staged fights, or to menace Anne when she tries to get in close enough to grab a tag or attack a tagged dino.

No idea where this is supposed to be...perhaps one of the large patches of black squares (sand terrain)?

The walkthrough mentions the Dam area itself at the end of a valley, which is the same as the one in B116, but it is fenced off and must be opened with some kind of opener, which has to be battery-powered from a radio collar seemingly attached to a larger boss albertosaurus. Oddly, the walkthrough also says the the stairs to the top of the Dam are on the WEST side, not the east side as they are in Retail, though to me this seems like it might just be an error on their part as everything else lines up correctly.
Quote:
Dam gate
The dam fills up the end of a valley up which the North Road runs. Anne is forced down to the valley floor by a washout on the road, if she has been following it up to now, and in order to get back up to the top, she has to get into the dam area, by using her gate opener-with-battery.


I'd also like to note that many of the objects in the Plains level we have are anywhere near the correct level of the terrain. If you were to raise the ground up to these object's height, the Plains would be about halfway as high up as Mount Watson's summit. What's strange though is that other objects line up almost perfectly with hills and ridges in places. It seems as if the entire island could have been at a higher elevation at some point, but considering the differences in coastal height between versions, you never know.

So that's all of the information I've gathered so far. Anything else would be of use so that we can assemble a collection of knowledge about this level as it is the only one we so far have no versions of at all. :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:53 am 
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I think I read somewhere that the town is facing the wrong way. This would make sense since the main entrance is pointing towards the IJ3 and there's nothing over there except the power lines and a dead end. Not to mention that Robert Muldoon's has access to the North gate and was Jurassic Park's warden, you can tell southings wrong. What probably happened is that when they cut the PL they moved Muldoon to the main entrance gate and when PH was cut the town was rotated so you would enter the main gate, thus covering up the fact that several levels were cut. In Hammond's original script one of the placement notes lists several pieces to be put in various places in the level and one has Muldoon in it, confirming that he had access to the plains.

Now in regards to the cliff side jumping puzzle (Anne122: After the bridge has collapsed behind her. Anne122c I was really hoping that wasn't going to happen). Its possible the puzzle could still been implemented as an alternate means of getting to the plains should the bridge collapse or the player fall.

Finally the "block house". Is the story that the developers were hinting at Stephen King's "it'. This one has had me puzzled for a long time.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:00 am 
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Quote:
I think I read somewhere that the town is facing the wrong way. This would make sense since the main entrance is pointing towards the IJ3 and there's nothing over there except the power lines and a dead end. Not to mention that Robert Muldoon's has access to the North gate and was Jurassic Park's warden, you can tell southings wrong. What probably happened is that when they cut the PL they moved Muldoon to the main entrance gate and when PH was cut the town was rotated so you would enter the main gate, thus covering up the fact that several levels were cut. In Hammond's original script one of the placement notes lists several pieces to be put in various places in the level and one has Muldoon in it, confirming that he had access to the plains.

Iiii'm not sure, that seems unlikely though. Everything I've ever read has kept the Town mostly the same as it is in all versions that we've seen, including the walkthrough which doesn't mention any keycards accessing any exit other than the Eastern Gate. As far as I know, Muldoon's card was never actually implemented, just referenced in text. The only thing that seems to have been removed between versions that we know of is the Southern/Eastern Gate that lead off of the Ops Center street and into a valley to the east (which presumably took you up by the coast and into the Plains).
Although, looking through the walkthrough, it says that the Ops Center dominates the end of Wells Street, when in the main game it is on Main Street (called Center Street in the walkthrough), which means that either the Town buildings were at some point shifted around or they were never true to the walkthrough by the time they got around to building it. There was an unrecorded line of dialogue where Hammond mentioned the Town being built starting from a central main spot, then extending out in circles, and there are several different layers of wall within the Town itself, though this never seems to have been expanded on.

Quote:
Finally the "block house". Is the story that the developers were hinting at Stephen King's "it'. This one has had me puzzled for a long time.

Nobody can say for certain, though many assume that this is where the "Scary toy clown" was meant to be found. I think their description of some dishes, a toy and some weapons is really vague at best, so we can't really be sure. The reference to a clown doll always made me picture the one from "Poltergeist" (which I modeled a while back in regard to this) more than "It".

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Quote:
I think I read somewhere that the town is facing the wrong way.

Quote:
Iiii'm not sure, that seems unlikely though. Everything I've ever read has kept the Town mostly the same as it is in all versions that we've seen, including the walkthrough which doesn't mention any keycards accessing any exit other than the Eastern Gate.


What I believe he means is that people used to speak about the town being in the wrong direction when placed on the Isla Sorna island based on the names of the gates. The south gate is really a north gate, and the west gate is the south gate if you go by the direction when you put it on the map.

Quote:
As far as I know, Muldoon's card was never actually implemented, just referenced in text.


Maybe. The early max scenes do contain some other versions of the keycards. We have textures for one of those the later TestScene levels. However, nothing to indicate Muldoon.

Code:
PtkeycardSec00-00
PtkeycardTM00-00
PtkeycardASec00-00
PtkeycardHB00-00 - The one from TestScene
PtkeycardSG00-00
Ptkeycard1Mn00-00
PtkeycardHS00-00
PtkeycardHG00-00


We do however know Muldoon was planned to have a bungalow in the town, as the Mystery Models pack contain texture for a namesign.

Quote:
Although, looking through the walkthrough, it says that the Ops Center dominates the end of Wells Street, when in the main game it is on Main Street (called Center Street in the walkthrough), which means that either the Town buildings were at some point shifted around or they were never true to the walkthrough by the time they got around to building it.


I would say they never followed it. The same thing goes that a school building have never been in the town level. The dev that sent us the early builds did most of the work for the town level.

Quote:
In this image, the green line is north. Those pink boxes are supposedly river objects, but to me they look like Bakers that outline the various mountain ranges in this level. Additionally, the blue box in the left corner is apparently the area where the player was meant to start the level.


To be honest, I can't figure out in what software that image is taken, but it is clearly of the level we have.

Attachment:
Plains.png
Plains.png [ 21.01 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]


I believe the outer square might be the terrain area. The marked items are the Block house. One thing I want to point out here is that the block house is really tiny comparing to the foliage objects and such in the max file, so I want to speculate the are is not proper to the later standard, why the levels seems to looks so huge. It is also possible it was really huge in early stages since it probably had a lot of open grounds and dinosaurs.

Quote:
that would mean the player would have to exit IT through the Southern Gate. Very strange. It seems by reading this that the player would have entered the same area that they do in retail, but the washouts on the road would extend into streambeds which would in turn prevent them from reaching the Dam.


At the same time, the voice over list say:
"When players reach the southern exit door from the town"
Anne: "This thing needs a passcode – it must be written down somewhere."
Which is meant to be on Hammond's computer, and not a keycard.

Also, I'm pretty sure VA112 "I was really hoping that wasn't going to happen." is suppose to happen directly after leaving the town, based on the comment "After the bridge has collapsed behind her".

I would recommend you to read Anne's voice over script, as it contain some really neat information on where most voice over was planned to happen. It is not listed by level but they are all listed by the order they was planned to appear in, so they go from BE to SUM, and you can pretty easy figure out when a level ends and a new one begins. This script was last edited in May 1998 so I'm pretty sure it is more accurate than the walkthrough, which I believe was only an idea document and not something they followed closely.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Been looking around and I couldn't find the topic that linked with my theory. What i did find is, "The riverbeds are pretty significant as they match up with Industrial Jungle's River beds. However, INGEN Town's riverbeds are facing the wrong way in build 96 and the final, indicating their positioning was changed. The existence and positioning of them in the Plains layout suggests that the riverbeds originally were supposed to be lined up and connected between IJ, IT, and PL respectively". this is from THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR. So I was way off :oops: , though it still seems weird that if visitors were to come through the west gate that the town is facing the north.

With that resolved, i have accumulated a mass of images from all over the forum for my project. The first grouping I have is of the wall map/table map.

Attachment:
IslandMap[1] (2).jpg
IslandMap[1] (2).jpg [ 40.33 KiB | Viewed 2441 times ]
This is the wall map that is present in the retail. The map follows the road leading from the town THROUGH pine valley and along the coast to the harbor. but it also shows a Y intersection that leads up towards Mt Watson.

Now in older builds the map was in the form of a table with little colored cubes representing structures.
Attachment:
_20170330_114828.JPG
_20170330_114828.JPG [ 32.83 KiB | Viewed 2441 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Top view
_20170330_115307.JPG
_20170330_115307.JPG [ 18.4 KiB | Viewed 2440 times ]


Now this is something
Attachment:
File comment: what's this?
tpass143[1].jpg
tpass143[1].jpg [ 191.73 KiB | Viewed 2439 times ]
This map shows the road heading north east and going UP Mt Watson before descending to the Y intersection. In comparison to the retail map this is shocking. So this means that the table map actually provides the location of the dam and the flow of the road.

However the one thing that remains constant between versions is this Y intersection that seems to go strait to the communication tower.

(sadly I've reached the max attachments for this post, ill add the next part of my findings later.)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Various wrote:

My two cents, on PL:

Those riverbed terrain objects are definitely river beds. Maybe something about dividing the level into sections. Without tall trees the level needs varied scenery to keep things interesting.

That block building in the middle.. seems dangerous. I've heard that there is a "plains curse" now that PH has been found. Better be careful.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Quote:
What I believe he means is that people used to speak about the town being in the wrong direction when placed on the Isla Sorna island based on the names of the gates. The south gate is really a north gate, and the west gate is the south gate if you go by the direction when you put it on the map.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I just took a look and all of the gates are named "eastgate" in the level, and we know that Anne goes north to reach Mount Watson, making the north gate the one by Hammond's House and the east gate the one that you usually exit out of.

Quote:
I believe the outer square might be the terrain area. The marked items are the Block house. One thing I want to point out here is that the block house is really tiny comparing to the foliage objects and such in the max file, so I want to speculate the are is not proper to the later standard, why the levels seems to looks so huge.

Hmm, yeah, that's true. The outer square could definitely be the terrain area as this contains both the Dam, the East Gate, and the entire open area that is presumably the Plains, right up to the ocean. Perhaps things hadn't quite been scaled correctly yet? Or it's possible that the trees were at one point much larger than they were in the final version. The latter theory seems possibly accurate because if you look at the pre-release screenshots, a lot of them have completely different foliage scales.

Quote:
It is also possible it was really huge in early stages since it probably had a lot of open grounds and dinosaurs.

I think that was indeed the case. The area that this level encompasses is between the mountain range on the east side of the Town and Mount Watson's southern side. The pink "streambeds" each line up almost exactly with all of the various mountain ranges present in IT.

Quote:
Also, I'm pretty sure VA112 "I was really hoping that wasn't going to happen." is suppose to happen directly after leaving the town, based on the comment "After the bridge has collapsed behind her".

Seems as if this bridge was never really implemented as I can't think of anywhere it might have gone, though it's possible it was either right after entering the Plains from the oceanside cliffs, or there was some kind of ditch between the Town and the North Road.

Quote:
I would recommend you to read Anne's voice over script, as it contain some really neat information on where most voice over was planned to happen. It is not listed by level but they are all listed by the order they was planned to appear in, so they go from BE to SUM, and you can pretty easy figure out when a level ends and a new one begins. This script was last edited in May 1998 so I'm pretty sure it is more accurate than the walkthrough, which I believe was only an idea document and not something they followed closely.

I've never been able to find this script, where exactly can I obtain it? :wink: I think reading this could somewhat help solve some more mysteries surrounding PL.

Quote:
Been looking around and I couldn't find the topic that linked with my theory. What i did find is, "The riverbeds are pretty significant as they match up with Industrial Jungle's River beds. However, INGEN Town's riverbeds are facing the wrong way in build 96 and the final, indicating their positioning was changed. The existence and positioning of them in the Plains layout suggests that the riverbeds originally were supposed to be lined up and connected between IJ, IT, and PL respectively". this is from THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR. So I was way off :oops: , though it still seems weird that if visitors were to come through the west gate that the town is facing the north.

Not sure I follow...which riverbeds is this referring to? I didn't think there were any riverbeds at all in IT. And in no way do the PL riverbeds match up with the ones in IJ, as IJ is on a completely different side of the island, unless it means the one in IJ3, but then the streambeds still don't line up. The closest link-up between IJ and PL is the single small riverbed you can see above the central one in that rendered screenshot I posted above, and even then that streambed is sitting on the side of the IJ3 eastern mountains.

Quote:
but it also shows a Y intersection that leads up towards Mt Watson.

That Y-intersection is actually partially present in the final game, in the form of an unfinished road leading from about 2/3rds of the way up AS2. The road simply leads to nowhere though, but it seems that at one point it was meant to go down the southern side of Mount Watson and connect with the road up by the Pine Valley gate.

Quote:
This map shows the road heading north east and going UP Mt Watson before descending to the Y intersection. In comparison to the retail map this is shocking. So this means that the table map actually provides the location of the dam and the flow of the road.

I think this might just be a mistake they made when modelling the island map, or the uphill area of the Y intersection is meant to represent the North Road leading up past the Dam and then around to the top of Mount Watson.

Here are some images from my import of PL into the complete Isla Sorna, with which I attempted to make a rough rendition of the Plains:

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

The southernmost streambed. Notice how it lines up pretty closely with the Town mountains, although it's a little bit too far west.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

Here are the central streambeds - notice how they line up with the mountains? I removed the range that the central one lined up with as I don't believe it was there originally and was only raised after the Plains were removed. It is possible that this one is indeed actually a streambed, but the one on the left-side is right on the mountains that run on the eastern side of IJ3.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

The northernmost streambed. Just to the top-left is one of the foothills of Mount Watson. Strangely it seems the rocks in this area line up with Watson if you move them somewhat to the west, but if you do that nothing else lines up! Also, you can see a rough approximation of the coastline on the right of this image. This one could be a streambed or a cliff - I went with a cliff.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

Here are the streams in relation to the Dam. Oddly, the gap between them lines up almost perfectly with the hills around the Dam that DON'T look weirdly edited in.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

This is the big blue box (which is black and untextured in TresEd). On the left-side of the image is the Town (the area with the brown patch on the terrain). If you left the South Gate, you would go down this valley and to the coast, presumably jumping around the cliffs here until you start the level at the big box.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

The blockhouse in relation to the Dam. Not exactly in the "extreme north" as stated in the walkthrough, but it's still quite a ways north, just above the central stream.

Click on Image
(Click on thumbnail for full size)
Image

And here's the height problem. These grass objects are floating waaaay above the unedited IT Plains area, so it seems many, but not all, of the objects in our PL level are improperly aligned to the terrain.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Due to being a bit late here, I will post a quick reply only for now.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I just took a look and all of the gates are named "eastgate" in the level, and we know that Anne goes north to reach Mount Watson, making the north gate the one by Hammond's House and the east gate the one that you usually exit out of.


Use the walls for reference. Anyway, I admit I was wrong. When seeing a map of Isla Sorna here I never noticed that north is towards the left on the map :P

Quote:
I've never been able to find this script, where exactly can I obtain it? :wink: I think reading this could somewhat help solve some more mysteries surrounding PL.

:| :| :| WHY haven't you asked me? www.trescom.org/files/other/Design_Documents.rar

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:56 am 
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Thanks for the documents, tatu. :) I took a look at them and it turns out I DO have these somewhere on my computer, just can't remember where. Either way, it doesn't really seem they reveal much we didn't know about Plains already.

Something of note I noticed in the documents is their list of levels:
Quote:
Beach, Jungle Road, Hunter Camp (coming soon), Plantation House, Industrial Jungle, InGen Town, Plains, Pine Valley, Lab, Ascent, and Summit

Soooo there is ANOTHER missing level, Hunter Camp?! :sick: It seems to me that they never got around to it though as I've never seen any mention of it elsewhere - looks likely that they ultimately just put the camp in PH in the end. They also noted that it was "coming soon", so presumably it was never even started judging by all the other evidence we have pointing to the camp being in PH. Where would this Hunter Camp level even go if it were included? If you include PH, there's a 100% complete path to the Summit from Beach. The inclusion of Plains in this list definitely means they also did some work on it at some point, meaning it got past the conceptual stage...only question is, how far did it get? Is the screenshot and level we have the furthest it ever got? Also of note is the lack of Ascent 2, meaning AS1 and AS2 were probably one level at some point. I've heard talk that the Geo Plant and the Harbor were also originally combined into one level, Shore, but I've never seen any evidence pointing to this myself.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:43 am 
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I just downloaded those files and sure enough it was in there :o. According to the file properties this was made on 3/31/1998. But the walkthrough was made on 6/27/1997 and was modified 8/15/1997.

What is going on?

:!:
Attachment:
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:31 am 
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TheIdiot wrote:
Soooo there is ANOTHER missing level, Hunter Camp?! :sick: It seems to me that they never got around to it though as I've never seen any mention of it elsewhere - looks likely that they ultimately just put the camp in PH in the end. They also noted that it was "coming soon", so presumably it was never even started judging by all the other evidence we have pointing to the camp being in PH. Where would this Hunter Camp level even go if it were included? If you include PH, there's a 100% complete path to the Summit from Beach. The inclusion of Plains in this list definitely means they also did some work on it at some point, meaning it got past the conceptual stage...only question is, how far did it get? Is the screenshot and level we have the furthest it ever got? Also of note is the lack of Ascent 2, meaning AS1 and AS2 were probably one level at some point. I've heard talk that the Geo Plant and the Harbor were also originally combined into one level, Shore, but I've never seen any evidence pointing to this myself.


I wouldn't call Hunter Camp a missing level as I believe it was never started. I can't see where it could've been placed if being its own level.

Doesn't the walkthrough have the Geo Plant and the Harbor in a section called "Shore"? It should have, as it is the only location we know about this level.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:53 pm 
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tatu wrote:
Doesn't the walkthrough have the Geo Plant and the Harbor in a section called "Shore"? It should have, as it is the only location we know about this level.

Just checked and your right,Shore, Anne starts this section of the game inside the power plant. It's possible they intended for this to be a small, primarily puzzle solving, scavenger hunt. The purpose of this level might have been like the "Final Exam" but focusing on using objects like sticks/misc. and arm orientation to solve problems like getting out of pits and "dino sized bear traps". The Mayan ruins were supposed​ to have pit traps like the ones around the hunters camp. Other than that this level was probably like the original beach and lab levels in that they are basically tutorials and in the case of the lab puzzle oriented. Either cut or cancelled due to time constraints, lacking point,or unable to craft working puzzleles that were doable(like the scraped fuse puzzle in computer building)
I'm going to post the rest of my analysis in a new topic. Basically what the objective might have been and the possible level location.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Location: Canada, eh?
Quote:
Minepass

Where did you find those pictures? I've never seen them before, and that cage model hasn't appeared anywhere I've ever seen. It's cool to see that at one point they did intend to model more of the Hunter Camp stuff.

Quote:
I wouldn't call Hunter Camp a missing level as I believe it was never started. I can't see where it could've been placed if being its own level.

Yeah, I agree. If Hunter Camp was ever going to be a level, either JR, PH or IJ would be heavily cut down in order to insert the other level.

Quote:
Doesn't the walkthrough have the Geo Plant and the Harbor in a section called "Shore"? It should have, as it is the only location we know about this level.

That's right, yeah. :wink: But it seems unlikely that this was ever implemented as an actual level since even the earliest version of PV we have includes only the Geo Plant, and no Lab. Also I find it hard to believe that they would have conceived a level containing two large, high-detail puzzle areas with the hardware limitations at the time...perhaps it was just called this to keep things organized.

Quote:
Just checked and your right,Shore, Anne starts this section of the game inside the power plant. It's possible they intended for this to be a small, primarily puzzle solving, scavenger hunt. The purpose of this level might have been like the "Final Exam" but focusing on using objects like sticks/misc. and arm orientation to solve problems like getting out of pits and "dino sized bear traps". The Mayan ruins were supposed​ to have pit traps like the ones around the hunters camp. Other than that this level was probably like the original beach and lab levels in that they are basically tutorials and in the case of the lab puzzle oriented. Either cut or cancelled due to time constraints, lacking point,or unable to craft working puzzleles that were doable(like the scraped fuse puzzle in computer building)

Hmm. Well, judging by the walkthrough and what eventually ended up being made, this area was simply the Geo Plant and ending part of Pine Valley and the Harbor section of Lab combined together, with nearly all of the same puzzles present. It definitely wouldn't be a tutorial considering the placement in the level order. The puzzles would include turning on the Geo Plant, crossing the bridges in PV, getting into the Harbor, and finding the card to access the lab complex. And the Mayan Ruins were to be part of the Ascent level, not Lab, which would have made Lab an extremely short level had they gone with this.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:04 pm 
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Very interesting stuff, you guys.. Wonder if anyone will try to make a HC level sometime. Damn this makes me want to do all sorts of special modding..

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:13 pm 
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TheIdiot wrote:
Quote:
Minepass

Where did you find those pictures? I've never seen them before, and that cage model hasn't appeared anywhere I've ever seen. It's cool to see that at one point they did intend to model more of the Hunter Camp stuff.

Quote:
Just checked and your right,Shore, Anne starts this section of the game inside the power plant. It's possible they intended for this to be a small, primarily puzzle solving, scavenger hunt. The purpose of this level might have been like the "Final Exam" but focusing on using objects like sticks/misc. and arm orientation to solve problems like getting out of pits and "dino sized bear traps". The Mayan ruins were supposed​ to have pit traps like the ones around the hunters camp. Other than that this level was probably like the original beach and lab levels in that they are basically tutorials and in the case of the lab puzzle oriented. Either cut or cancelled due to time constraints, lacking point,or unable to craft working puzzleles that were doable(like the scraped fuse puzzle in computer building)

Hmm. Well, judging by the walkthrough and what eventually ended up being made, this area was simply the Geo Plant and ending part of Pine Valley and the Harbor section of Lab combined together, with nearly all of the same puzzles present. It definitely wouldn't be a tutorial considering the placement in the level order. The puzzles would include turning on the Geo Plant, crossing the bridges in PV, getting into the Harbor, and finding the card to access the lab complex. And the Mayan Ruins were to be part of the Ascent level, not Lab, which would have made Lab an extremely short level had they gone with this.

The image is on pg16 of the Asset Creation Guidelines.doc.

Beach-teaches the basics of moving and interaction.
Jungle road- the monorail track at the end must be crossed in order to get to the next level. hence the name "Final Exam"
lab-primarily a series of puzzles and a lot of uncertainty. It seams the developers weren't entirely sure of how they wanted this level to progress and what was to be in it.
Ascent 1-originall the area surrounding the ruins had pit fall traps. The player would have to use the given rubble to make steps in order to get back out.

I was theorizing that the Hunters Camp was like the Beach, Jungle road, and lab in that it was possibly a small level that primarily dealt with puzzles and was in a ways a tutorial for hand orientation, Example-creating stairs from debris and removing the dino bear trap-I assume that it would require a stick or rock to help pry it open. the level could of had a "Final Exam" puzzle that would had to been completed in order to move to the next level.

The document that mentioned this level was created after the walkthrough and was placed in between the JR and PH. Its possible it was like the above mentioned levels minus Ascent 1. They chose to move the camp to an area between the two levels and it fulfill some tutorial based puzzle that the player would encounter later in the game, Example-the pit puzzle. And at some point it along with shore and lab level were altered. The geo plant puzzle and coast walk were placed with PV and the harbor was placed with the lab level. The Beach was expanded to include a longer walk and a the monorail terminus. Sorry for the confusion, I cut out a large part of what I had wrote to put into a new topic regarding this.


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