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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:52 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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Well, look who dared show up... ;)

Draconisaurus wrote:
machf wrote:
Warning! Possible spoilers ahead...

Bugs I've found so far:

- intro movie plays on the top left corner, not centered

We have no control over that, we didn't create the AT and as far as I know, there are NO other values for the SMK-play AT. Ask BR about it. If you really want it centered, play the level in 640x480 (like me) - you'll get fewer crashes that way, I imagine, and better framerate.

Maybe, but 640x480 has fewer detail...

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- if you turn around after entering the tunnel, the level crashes (this also happens if you come back from the other end of the tunnel), you need to turn around at the last bend and walk backwards until you're not just outside the tunnel, but at a safe distance from it

Well, no one else reported this error. If anyone can say they have experienced it (or want to try and find out it happens), please let me know, you can just post it in here.

I've got a feeling that placing some occlusion objects behind the walls of the tunnel might help...

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- upon exiting the level, Trespasser crashes with a "fatal error" message

All levels with additive TPA files do this, I've written an essay or two to BR about it but he doesn't have a fix just yet, and I'm content enough as long as it works.. it's a great bonus to be able to use them in the first place.

It's the .tpa files that's causing them? But TC Isle doesn't have any, and IIRC, it has the same problem...

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Annoyances/design flaws:

- climbing over those boxes on the dock and jumping over the fence, you find an invisible wall and there's no way to go back

*thinks* Well, yes there's a wall in front of you, you can go back through the level if you want just by walking off to the left.. Hmm and well if you mean the wall that's in front of the gate to the dock, *spoiler* the fallen palm is intended to keep you from escaping the dock - if you manage to escape anyway, don't expect to get back in; if you're taking enough time to climb up that crate, anyway, it probably means the boat has left the dock and there's nothing really left for you to do except fight raptors.

Actually, there weren't any raptors left.

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:P Honestly, I suppose I could try putting a palm which leans onto the fence from the outside, if you really want.. except that it's already out lol so it doesn't really matter. Anyways, I suppose your point is taken, I'll make a mental note.

Hmmm, maybe I should have turned left... turning right after hitting the invisible wall I ended up falling into the sea.

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- zombie raptor - couldn't you have used different ones instead?

Not really. The problem is that having so many AIs in the dock area really bogs the engine down, originally there were 3 at a time (total of 6), and that really just didn't work. Those TC_Isle raptors are quite poly-heavy, it's not as easy to have so many of them as it is for retail raptors. This also makes them a drag on the engine while they're dead, so teleporting a dead raptor away after a little while was the best solution, and I don't regret it. Old games used to teleport carcasses away all the time.. :lol: I wouldn't do it if it weren't a framerate issue.

Yes, I realized that after hppav mentioned it, so never mind. Seeing the corpses vanishing and another raptor showing up made me think it was the same (like on the harbor in the Lab level).

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*Oh just thought of another reason. The scripts in ED are intended to produce *spoiler* unlimited raptors in the dock, after the boat has left. They will always come back - that's difficult to do without cycling the old ones.

Why unlimited raptors?
BTW, throwing one into the sea stops them from re-spawning forever ;)

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- should give a warning about the remaining time to reach the dock (isn't that sort of thing possible, even without ATX? I guess a simple start trigger with a "delay" action followed by a "show text" action would do...)

Heh, well that is an interesting idea. I really kinda wanted to keep it a secret from the player - Nedry really had no idea how much time was left, I'm willing to bet anything he was already very, very late when his jeep crashed.


But the player should have some idea, otherwise he/she'll just wander exploring the level...

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Oh and, something else. For an unknown reason, the ASA file doesn't always play at exactly the same time. It seems to have a range of about 10 seconds.

Well, 10 seconds isn't something I would complain about...

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Never determined why but I like the unknowing factor. I will say that you have less than 5 minutes to reach the boat, and you can use the "time" cheat to see how long it's been, assuming you're not using a savegame.

What happens if I AM using a savegame?
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- the override lever won't move if you grab it, you must only slightly touch it instead... you could have given it a grab-magnet

Maybe. I'm not sure if that would have made it any better, I can remember to test that for future puzzles such as that.. Anyways, the Hint you get at that point tells you some pretty easy ways to do it, also refer to Sam's walkthrough. Oh and, it is actually possible to do the lever only by grabbing. ;) Just takes way too long, don't try it.

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- I guess the reason for the download being so large is the additional .tpa files, are there really that many sounds, ot is it that they're just too hi-quality (in which case you could have lowered th3e quality a bit)?

Heh, okay I'll tell you... Trespasser uses "compressed wav files." These things are neat but.. well first off, WMP can't even play them (anymore),

Screw WMP, it's as if Microsoft said "well, which one of our programs haven't we ruined yet"? Up to WMP 6.4, it was the best product MS had ever released, probably the best media player around - and then they progressively made it worse.

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WinAmp or something else is required. I can't even begin to imagine how I would go about creating this format.. perhaps if a method is revealed to me, I can look into that for JPDS1.

Use for example Audacity. Before exporting, set the format to "WAV (Microsoft 4bit IMA ADPCM), then export to a WAV file. Easy.

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After some time I may release a listing of all sounds in the ED TPAs, there are a fair number but not that many.. Mostly vocals for Nedry, and ambient sounds, and such..

Glad you liked the level. :yum: :yum:

hppav wrote:
I told Draco to fix that, too many objects are on the screen if you turn around. I thought he did. I also told him there was way too much foliage in the first area, but apparently he didn't think so.
Yeah I get that a lot. :P Nem's level crashes a fair amount for some people.. not that it's a good thing.. but it's kinda worth it for those who can play it in such good quality, and you can keep yourself from having the error by not going backwards. For a level like JPDS1, I would be more concerned about that - but ED is very much a linear level, more like a race. Exploring can also be fun but it's a side point. Also, to everyone, remember that you can reduce detail in ATX2 by pressing the "[" and "]" keys ingame, which also keeps low-priority objects from being rendered.

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It's never the same each time, Tres seems to pick a random time about 4.5 mins in.
Ah, lol, there you go then. :P That is what I would have said.

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Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

Heh, I've already corrected him on this, it's all good.. Mickey and I of course finished LJ together, and NPC was (about) as finished as TC_Isle :P

LJ doesn't have an end, and NPC supposedly is still unfinished (as well as TC Isle). BTW, are you going to finish NPC for this Christmas?

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Draco put in a LOT of sounds, ambient sounds, music, voice overs, new dilo sounds, etc.

Heh, well yeah, I guess it was a fair few sounds, they were all needed.. Among the new sounds is a complete 5-minute music track in wav format, I'm sure that adds some data size..

Argh... that one sure adds A LOT (5 minutes x 1536kbps = ~55MB for stereo, 16-bit, 48kHz sampling rate; about 10MB/minute for 44.1kHz)

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machf wrote:
I've seen that problem before, and I found what was causing it. Right now I don't remember what it was, though. However, I remember posting about it on the forum...

Please let us know if you find it or remember it again. What Slugger did tell me was that you figured out how to prevent SMK files from crashing the level,

Hmmm... don't remember that.

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and I used your fix in ED, which also creates a 3-second delay after winED.smk plays before the level ends..

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Where's that scripted?

Yeah it's weird, isn't it. All those triggers are right next to each other in the basement, btw. Here's the script:
Code:
group Trig_LeaveDock = {
    int ext_GeometryType = 2
    string Class = "CLocationTrigger"
    bool ObjectEnterTrigger = true
    string TriggerActivate = "BoatBlock"
    int FireCount = 1
    int ProcessStyle = 3
    group Action00 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 256.000000
    }
    group Action01 = {
        int ActionType = 26
        string AnimationName = "anim_SSAnneB"
    }
    group Action02 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 25.000000
    }
    group Action03 = {
        int ActionType = 10
        string Target = "DockStairs00"
        bool Frozen = false
        bool Impulse = true
        float Push = 60.000000
        string Emitter = "$StairPush"
    }
    group Action04 = {
        int ActionType = 25
        float Delay = 335.000000
    }
    group Action05 = {
        int ActionType = 18
        string ObjectName = "SSAnneBext_A"
        string TeleportDestObjectName = "TeleDestSSAnneBsavegame"
        bool SetOrientation = true
        bool HeightRelative = false
    }
}


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That one made me laugh really loud...

:cartman:

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I'm going to dissect those .tpa files later...

Hahaha, I knew that was coming, be my guest.. There are probably a lot of used sounds you haven't encountered even, but some few are unused, mostly that were going to be used and simply removed. Those were all small ones though..

hppav wrote:
I know for a fact that there is at least one unused VO in the tpas, I think it's "Vehicle headlights are on and they're not responding..." or something like that. That's why Samuel L. Jackson isn't credited in the ReadMe, because the sound isn't used.

Eh? Well I don't think so.. there are many sounds in the recording archive I made that could have been used and weren't. The only unused voiceover I'm aware of is actually suspended in air.. over the gate area.. because it doesn't sound very good. I spliced the cuts of Nedry saying "Shoulda been there by now" and "That ain't good", which were shot together but in the movie are spliced.. it just didn't turn out well with the other sounds going on.

machf wrote:
Found it, I remembered it had something to do with TC Isle. Looks like it was related to dinosaurs having more than 200 vertices attached to a bone, maybe one of the TC dinos has that problem or something similar...

Wait, are we still talking about the level crashing after you close it? How does that have any relation to the additive TPAs? Because it only occurs in such levels that have them.. regardless of what dinosaurs are present.. But then, I've never tested and additive TPA level with retail or no dinosaurs.. I suppose I can try that sometime. :P

Let me know how it works.
(Just disabled the TPAs, and yes, it doesn't crash anymore).
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I'll have to search throughout the level, then.

Haha, if you pay attention to the triggers in the playing area, you'll find plenty of references to things in the OTP trigger zone.

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Several unused sounds? Hmmm, that's what I feared...

Thanks, Sam. xP I'll list which sounds are used and unused when I make the list, sometime.. like I said, the unused sounds are pretty small ones, only one voiceover was unused.




Alright, I do enjoy hearing these technical crits and points on the level, it's part of why I do it, but I'd like to hear about what people enjoyed, not just what gave them trouble. :P Any voiceovers people weren't expecting to hear?

Didn't pay attention to them, really. The ship horns were too noisy.
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New models that took them by surprise?

Like one certain silly-looking guy in a trenchcoat? ;)

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Parts of the level they thought were funny or fun, etc.. Also wondering if anyone has tried to play parts of the level in third-person?

Don't like 3rd person view, really...

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For those who haven't realized yet, the player model is full-bodied, rigged by machf soon before Khaled was released.

And to think the idea was that they were going to be released on the same day...

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And thanks to all the complements so far! :)

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:20 am 
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machf wrote:
Quote:
Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

Heh, I've already corrected him on this, it's all good.. Mickey and I of course finished LJ together, and NPC was (about) as finished as TC_Isle :P

machf wrote:

LJ doesn't have an end, and NPC supposedly is still unfinished (as well as TC Isle). BTW, are you going to finish NPC for this Christmas?

LJ never was going to have a ending... So that qualifys as finished.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:23 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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Mickey wrote:
machf wrote:
Quote:
Keep in mind that this is the first FINISHED level Draco has ever done.

Heh, I've already corrected him on this, it's all good.. Mickey and I of course finished LJ together, and NPC was (about) as finished as TC_Isle :P

machf wrote:

LJ doesn't have an end, and NPC supposedly is still unfinished (as well as TC Isle). BTW, are you going to finish NPC for this Christmas?

LJ never was going to have a ending... So that qualifys as finished.


I forgot to add a smiley ;) at the end of that sentence...
And BTW, Draco, regarding the tunnel - the first time it happened was when I was entering the tunnel backwards to see if I could shoot the dilo as it entered... so never mind the linearity.

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:05 am 
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Most 5 minute wave files are 50mb...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:45 am 
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T-Rex Killer
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machf wrote:
It's the .tpa files that's causing them? But TC Isle doesn't have any, and IIRC, it has the same problem...

:? Not that I noticed, check again and lemme know... Also EVERY level I've ever FINISHED and RELEASED ;) has used the TC_Isle raptors.

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Actually, there weren't any raptors left.

Heh, this seemed like it happened sometimes.. I'm not sure what happened but I know at least 1 raptor started to act rather funky, a sign that additional raptors would work even less..

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Hmmm, maybe I should have turned left... turning right after hitting the invisible wall I ended up falling into the sea.

LOL, there's nothing wrong with that, I made sure there were interesting things down there, particularly in the middle of the dock..

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Why unlimited raptors?
BTW, throwing one into the sea stops them from re-spawning forever ;)

Aha, yeah I discovered that yesterday myself :lol: Quite a fun, new way to get rid of them.. And, unlimited because if the boat has left, as Dennis Nedry you are pretty screwed at that point anyway, and I ment to get this across in as many ways as I could.

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But the player should have some idea, otherwise he/she'll just wander exploring the level...

Heh well I want to let him/her explore the level if they want, seeing all that's there, so they can discover the boat missing when they get to the dock and be like "oh, I should have gotten here sooner" after reading the Hints...

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What happens if I AM using a savegame?

Good question. Well the timer thing is out in that case, so good luck. :P But amazingly, the trigger that sets the delay remembers how long it's been... Trespasser even records which frame of the ASA it's on when you save the game. I was quite pleasantly surprised and impressed. Anyways I suppose I could have done a text display if I really wanted, I think that would have been a monster setup if it changed every second...

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Use for example Audacity. Before exporting, set the format to "WAV (Microsoft 4bit IMA ADPCM), then export to a WAV file. Easy.

Heh, that's a free program? I've got a very nice audio recorder (Nero Wave Editor, part of Nero StartSmart which came with my new CD drive) that I'm not too interested in totally replacing - with saving a compressed wav in Audacity, would it allow me the same types of other settings? I.E. 44 100 Hz, 16 bit, stereo etc..

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BTW, are you going to finish NPC for this Christmas?

Definitely not. Far too much else is going on level-wise... Damn, I need to announce that bloody contest.. and catch up on the forums.. maybe the next time I wake up.

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(Just disabled the TPAs, and yes, it doesn't crash anymore).

Golly, gee.. :yum: Hopefully BR will have a fix for this in coming months, as I told him the primary cocern is a crash after JPDS1 when loading JPDS2.. I am wondering if ATX won't crash if the next level to be loaded also has specified additive TPA files, haven't tested it yet.
*tests* Crap, doesn't work..

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Didn't pay attention to them, really. The ship horns were too noisy.

Heh, were you playing from a savegame? It's not as noisy when you don't use a savegame, due to the lower music volume, as I forewarned to everyone in the readme. Try beating the level from the start and you'll hear them..

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Don't like 3rd person view, really...

Heh, well I've found it to be a bit troublesome to use in anything but just walking around, but it's fun to see anyway.. :?

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And BTW, Draco, regarding the tunnel - the first time it happened was when I was entering the tunnel backwards to see if I could shoot the dilo as it entered... so never mind the linearity.

Haha, I see.. well if you enter the tunnel before killing the Dilo, you'll die no matter what, it's a scripted event. ;) Ohhhhh haha, that's actually probably why it crashed. The teleporting Dilo. *spoiler* The time it happens while you're in the jeep used to cause a crash half the time until I deleted a bunch of foliage.. Heh hmm, try going backwards through the tunnel after the Dilo is slain.

Second Illiteration wrote:
Most 5 minute wave files are 50mb...

There you go, just like machf's calculation would have it. :yum: BTW SI, what the frak is that in your sig.. :|! (I can guess what it is but I want to know what's up with it)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Parasaurolophus
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Draco, you said that people told you what they liked about the level. Well, apart from EVERYTHING here it is my fauvorite things (spoilers!!)

- Playing as Nedry and in Third Person
- Having another human in the level
- The great idea of the plot for the level (Nedry has to get to the boat)
- The jeep, the gate, the dock and the boat
- Etc...

Again I say: Congratulations, Draco!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: It's one of the best levels I have played so far :yes: :yes: This is the proof that the patience is the best quality of all...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:22 pm 
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Microceratops wrote:
Draco, you said that people told you what they liked about the level. Well, apart from EVERYTHING here it is my fauvorite things (spoilers!!)

- Playing as Nedry and in Third Person
- Having another human in the level
- The great idea of the plot for the level (Nedry has to get to the boat)
- The jeep, the gate, the dock and the boat
- Etc...

Again I say: Congratulations, Draco!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: It's one of the best levels I have played so far :yes: :yes: This is the proof that the patience is the best quality of all...

Third person how do you play in third person?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:31 pm 
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T-Rex Killer
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Draconisaurus wrote:
machf wrote:
It's the .tpa files that's causing them? But TC Isle doesn't have any, and IIRC, it has the same problem...

:? Not that I noticed, check again and lemme know... Also EVERY level I've ever FINISHED and RELEASED ;) has used the TC_Isle raptors.

Well, then obviously there's more than one reason for that, TC Isle must have a third one...

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Hmmm, maybe I should have turned left... turning right after hitting the invisible wall I ended up falling into the sea.

LOL, there's nothing wrong with that,

Nothing? The fall can kill you...

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I made sure there were interesting things down there, particularly in the middle of the dock..

Couldn't do much sightseeing while dead...
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Why unlimited raptors?
BTW, throwing one into the sea stops them from re-spawning forever ;)

Aha, yeah I discovered that yesterday myself :lol: Quite a fun, new way to get rid of them.. And, unlimited because if the boat has left, as Dennis Nedry you are pretty screwed at that point anyway, and I ment to get this across in as many ways as I could.

Quote:
But the player should have some idea, otherwise he/she'll just wander exploring the level...

Heh well I want to let him/her explore the level if they want, seeing all that's there, so they can discover the boat missing when they get to the dock and be like "oh, I should have gotten here sooner" after reading the Hints...

Never use them. And when I tried them later, the message I got was regarding the Emily. I was wondering if the ship was scripted to leave at a certain time, or it was a bug in the level that somehow didn't display it...
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What happens if I AM using a savegame?

Good question. Well the timer thing is out in that case, so good luck. :P But amazingly, the trigger that sets the delay remembers how long it's been... Trespasser even records which frame of the ASA it's on when you save the game. I was quite pleasantly surprised and impressed. Anyways I suppose I could have done a text display if I really wanted, I think that would have been a monster setup if it changed every second...

What I had in mind was more like "5 minutes left", "3 minutes", "Less than a minute"... that would be more than enough.
Quote:
Quote:
Use for example Audacity. Before exporting, set the format to "WAV (Microsoft 4bit IMA ADPCM), then export to a WAV file. Easy.

Heh, that's a free program?

Yes.

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I've got a very nice audio recorder (Nero Wave Editor, part of Nero StartSmart which came with my new CD drive) that I'm not too interested in totally replacing - with saving a compressed wav in Audacity, would it allow me the same types of other settings? I.E. 44 100 Hz, 16 bit, stereo etc..

Sure, those other settings are in the "Quality" options. Try it.

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BTW, are you going to finish NPC for this Christmas?

Definitely not. Far too much else is going on level-wise... Damn, I need to announce that bloody contest.. and catch up on the forums.. maybe the next time I wake up.

Right, Rip...
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(Just disabled the TPAs, and yes, it doesn't crash anymore).

Golly, gee.. :yum: Hopefully BR will have a fix for this in coming months, as I told him the primary cocern is a crash after JPDS1 when loading JPDS2..

Imagine my projected series of 5 levels or so...

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I am wondering if ATX won't crash if the next level to be loaded also has specified additive TPA files, haven't tested it yet.
*tests* Crap, doesn't work..

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Didn't pay attention to them, really. The ship horns were too noisy.

Heh, were you playing from a savegame?

At some point, probably.

Quote:
It's not as noisy when you don't use a savegame, due to the lower music volume, as I forewarned to everyone in the readme. Try beating the level from the start and you'll hear them..



Maybe next time...

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Tres WIP: updated T-Script Reference and File Formats documents
Sound name listings for the Demo (build 117), Retail (build 116), Beta 103, Beta 99, Beta 97, Beta 96, Build 55, PC Gamer Alpha (build 32) and E3 1998 Alpha (build 22) TPA files


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:48 pm 
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TrentRaptorKiller wrote:
Third person how do you play in third person?


Press F1 when you start to play the level and you will know :wink: :wink:

Oh, one more thing... Why does anyone actualize (if you say it that way) the TresCom web with a new actualization telling people about this new level?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:53 pm 
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Ok Thanks :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Microceratops wrote:
Having another human in the level

You mean that 2D guy on the boat? lol When hppav sayed, in the East Dock Official Walkthrough, that there's a guy at the end that can shoot you, I thought it was a 3D man. lol


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:23 pm 
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Draconisaurus wrote:
BTW SI, what the frak is that in your sig.. :|! (I can guess what it is but I want to know what's up with it)





It's a level I started working on...have some interesting ideas of stuff to implement in it, but don't know the scripting yet. But like you said, you can tell what it is :mrgreen: Though that's the earliest phase of it...since then I replaced it with more of an ACTUAL model I made (sort of), as well as adding some stuff to the "bigger" structure associated with that building. So far the level looks good, but there's not much to do in it. If you're interested, send me a PM to discuss it further because there is some things I'm sure I could use your help on.



Oh I also wanted to add...how do I get the additional tpas to work...I'm not getting any of the voice overs...

And did you use any of those sounds I sent you for the raptors (or did I even ever send them?)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Pteranodon
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That level looks sweet :o i would love to use some of that stuff in my level :yes: :yes: :yes:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:14 pm 
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-=TresCom Developer=-
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Microceratops wrote:
Why does anyone actualize (if you say it that way) the TresCom web with a new actualization telling people about this new level?


You mean post a news article? I'll do that tonight, when I get home; was meaning to last night, but fell asleep after watching "Tin Man"... :cartman:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Slugger wrote:
Microceratops wrote:
Why does anyone actualize (if you say it that way) the TresCom web with a new actualization telling people about this new level?


You mean post a news article? I'll do that tonight, when I get home; was meaning to last night, but fell asleep after watching "Tin Man"... :cartman:


Yes, that was exactly what I was saying. Glad that finally the web is going to be updated :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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